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IssaEl999 View Drop Down
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Joined: 10 March 2011
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Originally posted by islamispeace islamispeace wrote:

Originally posted by IssaEl999 IssaEl999 wrote:

Care Share What You Know About Saul , Shaool , Paul , Teaching ?


Well, he claimed that Jesus was God.  He also felt that the Gentiles were not required to be circumcised.  He also pretty much influenced the abolition of the Laws of the Torah. 

Besides that, the accounts of his "encounter" in Damascus are inconsistent and contradictory. 
 
The Deceiver Paul Acclaimed Vision Is The Only Evidence The Deceiver Paul Could Produce For His Bid For The Leadership Of The New Church The Deceiver Would Raise . No Wonder The Jews Were Highly Skeptical About The Whole Claim And Would Not Listen To Him . Let's Take A Look In The Bible Where The Deceiver Paul CONTRADICTS HIMSELF THREE TIMES ,

This Is The Behavior Of A LIAR , A LIAR Has To Repeat His LIE Two Or More Times With Each Verse Differing From The Next Until He Ultimately Prove Himself A LIAR . He Eventually Reveals The Truth He Was Trying To Hide All Along .

Contradiction One ;
Acts 9 ; 4 - 7 , And I Quote ; 4 And he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 5 And he said, "Who are you, Lord?" And he said, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting; 6 but rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do." 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.


In The Above Quote The Deceiver Paul , First Says The HE Alone Fell To The Ground ( Earth ) And Then He Proceeds To Say That The Men Who Journeyed With Him Stood Speechless , Hearing A Voice , BUT Seeing No Man , We See In Acts 22 ; 7 - 9 That Paul The Deceiver Was About To Be Killed By The People Of The City Of Caesarea For Preaching To The Jews Amongst The GENTILES That They Should Forsake Moses And Not Circumcise Their Children Or Follow Their Customs .

The Deceiver Paul Was Saved By The Soldiers And Centurions Who Took Him To The Castle Unto The Chief Priest And There The Deceiver Paul Says

Contradiction Two ;
Acts 22; 7 - 9 , And I Quote ; 7 The men who were traveling with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul arose from the ground; and when his eyes were opened, he could see nothing; so they led him by the hand and brought him into Damascus. 9 And for three days he was without sight, and neither ate nor drank.

Now , In This Quote The Deceiver Paul Say HE Alone Fell To The Ground . He Proceeds To Say That The MEN Who Were With Him SAW The Light , But HEARD Not The Voice Of Him Who Spoke . But He Had Just Said In Acts 9 ; 4 - 7 , '' Those Who Journeyed With Him , Heard A Voice , But Saw Not A Man ! ''

We Now Go To Acts 26 ; 13 - 14 To Find The Third Contradiction . At This Point , The Deceiver Paul Is Defending Himself Before King Agrippa ;

Contradiction Three ;
Acts 26 ; 13 - 14 , And I Quote ; 13 At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining round me and those who journeyed with me. 14 And when we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It hurts you to kick against the sticks .

The Deceiver Paul Just Said In Acts 9 ; 4 - 7 , And 22 ; 7 - 9 That ONLY He Fell To The Ground !!!! After We Listen To The Deceiver Paul Contradictions , It Makes It Very Difficult To Believe That The Deceiver Paul Ever Had A Vision . The Deceiver Paul Is A LIAR And His Own Word Confirm It !!!!! Romans 3 ; 7 , And I Quote ; 7 But if through my falsehood God's truthfulness abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?

Having The Behavior Of A Liar , As Usual , Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , Continued To Prove Himself A Liarr . In None Of The Other Quotes Had He Said That Jesus Spoke To Him In The Hebrew Tongue ! However , In The Following Quote , ( Acts 26 ; 16 ) , Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , Says That Jesus Appeared To Him To Make Him A Minister . Is This Why Paul '' The Self Appointed Apostle , Though He Was Supposed To Be A Disciple ? Acts 26 ; 14 - 16 .
 
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Edited by IssaEl999 - 02 April 2011 at 2:01pm
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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bunter View Drop Down
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Originally posted by islamispeace islamispeace wrote:


Originally posted by IssaEl999 IssaEl999 wrote:

Care Share What You Know About <font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Saul , Shaool , Paul , Teaching ?
Well, he claimed that Jesus was God.� He also felt that the Gentiles were not required to be circumcised.� He also pretty much influenced the abolition of the Laws of the Torah.�
Besides that, the accounts of his "encounter" in Damascus are inconsistent and contradictory.�


Let us be clear here, these are YOUR claims and since you are unable to give any Bible or other citations to support them they are just so much wind.
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IssaEl999 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by chall0121 chall0121 wrote:

It is my understanding that the virgin birth is a Scriptural truth to be accepted by faith.  There isn't any proof.  The point is that Jesus is both man and God.  The concept is that God "fused" His own being with full humanity in the womb of Mary.  Thus Jesus is a man, who is also God by virtue of union with the Father. 
 
Paul expressed that the Law was just and holy.  It is an expression of God's own holiness.  Yet the Law was never intended to be obeyed to bring the necessary righteousness for salvation.  Only ABSOLUTE perfection can earn Heaven.  That means that if one commits a single sin... that person is disqualified from going to Heaven forever.  That is how serious sin is.  Jesus, who is believed to be both man and God, is believed to be absolutely perfect.  Through the cross, Jesus Christ willingly died in the believer's place, taking the wrath of God upon Himself, fulfilling God's judgment against sin.  Just as Jesus took our sinfulness upon Himself (every last sin that has been committed and will be committed), Jesus imputes His own absolute righteousness upon the believer.  The believer is then seen by God clothed in Christ's righteousness, absolute perfection, being hidden from judgment. 
 
So Paul didn't necessarily abolish the Law.  Paul simply expressed the Law's ultimate purpose in revealing God's holiness, the requirement for Heaven, and how it relates to Christ's righteousness as imputed to the believer. 
 
At least... that's my understanding of it.  lol 
 
 
The Christians have Concocted in hopes of Brainwashing people into thinking that '' God '' ( as they call hin '' Put  a child into Mary's Womb . This is a '' Hoax '' . No Women in History , nor in this day and time , has ever conceived a Child without the Aid of a Man . It has never been the will of the '' Almighty '' for Women to Reproduce By Herself . If you know this to be Untrue , then you have to Show Me In The Scriptures where woman have Conceived Children Without A Man and only by the will of the '' Almighty '' .
 
To Believe in the Immaculate Conception is to Believe that Yahuwa  merely placed a see in Mary's Body , by saying '' Kun , Faya Kuwn '' Exist And It Existed ''  If this was the case , wouldn't it have been easier to just create a full grown Man , Bashar < Arabic > . It would have sped up the events concerning the The Prophet / Messiah Jesus , life and it would have been easier for both Joesph and Mary . Why didn't Yahuwa do this ? He did it with The Prophet Adam
. In addition , wouldn't that have been the most Simple , Most ideal formula for all the Prophets of Yahuwa  to be born . This would elminate having to Groom Women to give Birth to people such as The Prophets . Couldn't He have just made the Trees , Birds , Flowers , already Full Grown without starting as a Seed and going through the Developing Stage . We Definitely Wouldn't Have To Wait To Eat . Yahuwa could have made it this way , but He didn't . Yahuwa created Man , Bashar < Arabic > from the Spark , '' Kun , Faya Kuwn '' . This same Spark gave life to the First Man , The Prophet Adam as well as The Prophets / Messiah Jesus , however , The Prophet Adam was created '' From The Dust Of The Ground ''  Genesis 2 ; 7 , And I Quote ; And The Lord God  Formed Man  Of The Dust  Of The Ground And Breathed  Into His Nostrils  The Breath Of Life ;  And Man  Became A Living Soul .
 
Let me show you the Ridiculousness of the '' Immaculate Conception'' . For the Creator to have Produced A Child in the Womb of Mary without a Sperm would mean that Mary's entire Composition was Changed so that She would also have a '' Y'' Chromosome in order to Produce A Male Child by Herself , without the Aid of a Man . Women don't possees this '' Y'' Chromosome , it is the Male Chromosome , Let me explain . Each individual Sperm of a Male carries either a '' X '' or a '' Y''  Chromosome  and the Female Egg just carries an '' X
Chromosome  . In order for a Male to be Conceived , a Sperm carrying the '' Y''  Chromosome  must Meet the Female  Egg  carrying the '' X Chromosome .  This Union cause the Combination '' XY''  which develops into a Male Child . In Mary's case . She being a Female only possessed Two '' X '' Chromosomes .
 
There is no way possible She could have received a '' Y''  Chromosome  without the help of a mortal Sperm .  Now , I Ask You Christians Where Did She Get The '' Y '' Chromosome From ? If You Say Your '' God '' Has Physical Attributes Of A Human Being . If You Believe '' God '' To Be Supreme Then He Wouldn't Have Human Attributes .
 
This is the beauty of  Yahuwa . He created Male and Female in stages and this reproductive process has been His since the first Man and Woman The Prophet Adam and his help mate Eve
. The entire human race has reproduced the same way for Thousand of years . This is the will of The Almighty Creator .
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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Originally posted by islamispeace islamispeace wrote:

Originally posted by IssaEl999 IssaEl999 wrote:

Care Share What You Know About Saul , Shaool , Paul , Teaching ?


Well, he claimed that Jesus was God.  He also felt that the Gentiles were not required to be circumcised.  He also pretty much influenced the abolition of the Laws of the Torah. 

Besides that, the accounts of his "encounter" in Damascus are inconsistent and contradictory. 
 
Shukran Jaziylan
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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Originally posted by IssaEl999 IssaEl999 wrote:

Care Share What You Know About Saul , Shaool , Paul , Teaching ?


Well, he claimed that Jesus was God.  He also felt that the Gentiles were not required to be circumcised.  He also pretty much influenced the abolition of the Laws of the Torah. 

Besides that, the accounts of his "encounter" in Damascus are inconsistent and contradictory. 


Edited by islamispeace - 01 April 2011 at 12:22pm
Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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bunter View Drop Down
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Originally posted by IssaEl999 IssaEl999 wrote:

Thankyou For Your Answer (chall. If , Paul was going to teach the Gentiles then he should have been converting them to the teaching and the laws of the person whom he claimed to be receiving all of these visions from. For Example;Keep the Sabbath (Mark 2;27) circumcise male children on the 8th day Luke 2;21)...

Issa, I think its time you actually added something to the discussion, so far all you have done is copy what can be found in other placers. In this particular post it comes from http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/general-religious-discussions/38519-pauls-christianity-vs-jesus-christianity-m-z-york.html and it says there that it is the work of someone called M. Z. York whose posting you can find all over the place and his work is known as Nuwaubianism.

If you want more if this rubbish go and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuwaubianism


Edited by bunter - 01 April 2011 at 8:05am
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Originally posted by Matt Browne Matt Browne wrote:

Modern enlightened Christians don't believe virgin birth to be a biological fact. Jesus, the human being, had a biological father too. Immaculate conception can have a symbolic meaning.Modern enlightened Muslims don't believe in the physical night journey of Muhammad. This too has a symbolic meaning.

Perhaps you will tell us by what means we can look through scripture and know that one thing is symbolic and another is not?

Edited by bunter - 01 April 2011 at 7:42am
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Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

You wrote: " The point is that Jesus is both man and God." Where did that come from and how is that different from similar claims by other religions that you probably do not accept, the Hindu concept in particular where God is told to have come down in various forms, both as man and animal. Also it does raise another valid question. Why during the period covering the OT prophets God is never mentioned to have come down in form of one of His own creation? Nowhere in the OT I find where awaited Massiah was told to be God himself.

This is a fair but difficult question and no Christian will say other that God is one. But in the NT we frequently read that Jesus claims to be one with God. For example we read in John 10:28-32 NIV "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father�s hand. I and the Father are one.� Thus Jesus here claims to be God and who but God can redeem us?

Now a common objection to the idea that God is one in three and three in one is that it cannot be understood and of course I agree with that but at the same time I do not make my own mind the measure of all things and I accept in faith the triune God.

To see what I mean here about setting limits with our puny minds I might ask you what does it mean if God is one, without equals etc. Does it mean he sits in a chair somewhere and I can identify him as one person or is he everywhere or what? If he is one person in the sense that we might understand it how can he listen to a billion prayers and in the case of Islam listen to a billion people all saying the same prayers and saying it several time over. If God is everywhere its then hard to see he is one?

Edited by bunter - 01 April 2011 at 7:46am
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