believer/ nonbeliever

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   Hayfa - Consider that no man is better then another- then it is very likely that the people in charge of the Quran have also failed.

H3OO - What if you know that the prophet was from GOD but his message has been distorted because of wrong translations and purposely destroyed variations of writings? What if the message is opposite from what history has told us.

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believer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397	Post Options Post Reply Quote believer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2008 at 6:24am
	Hayfa - Consider that no man is better then another- then it is very likely that the people in charge of the Quran have also failed. H3OO - What if you know that the prophet was from GOD but his message has been distorted because of wrong translations and purposely destroyed variations of writings? What if the message is opposite from what history has told us.
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

H3OO Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2008 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 215	Post Options Post Reply Quote H3OO Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 July 2008 at 12:18am
	and as to ur saying that isnt believing in GOD enough. i would say that its the GOD who send all these prophets and therefore its his order to accept all the the prophets unless u are not honestly sure about the truthness of anyone of them (otherwise why would he send them, its not that difficult to understand) and so if u believe in GOD, u have to believe in all prophets he send and if u reject even one them means that u are rejecting GODs words/orders and hence the GOD so even if one accepts God but reject any of his prophets intentionally (knowing in heart that he a true massenger of GOD)then i do think ur acceptance of God are just words and nothing from the inside. it simple when u believe in God, u believe in everything he says and follow his orders otherwise acceptance/believing are mere words. Edited by H3OO - 13 July 2008 at 12:37am

H3OO Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2008 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 215	Post Options Post Reply Quote H3OO Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 July 2008 at 10:39pm
	ill discuss this in context of whether u r a nonbeliever or a kafir, since u are not a Muslim so accord to my faith u don't qualify as a believer; so it depends upon whats inside ur heart that ofcourse only God knows. if u, in ur heart know that Hazrat (pbuh) was a true massenger of GOD but yet u deny it intentionally then ofcourse u for me are a Kafir. but if there are some doubts in ur heart due lack of info or some other true reasons, and there is no dishonesty on ur part, then i do believe u are a nonbeliever (who i believe will also go to heaven)and not a kafir. what we study is that before GOd decided to send his prophet, the state of humans was in very bad state. they did every bad thing that couldve possibly be done, so inorder to get them back on track. GOD decided to send his prophets. so the purpose of prophets was to give the mankind the proper right guidance and get them out of dark into light. so if someone without believing in prophet in the manner as i above stated follows all his believing and lives a very pure life and does all that what prophets taught us but doesnt honestly believe due lack of info about the truthness of the prophet, how can such a person be a kafir, (he isnt intentionally rejecting the prophet neither he is doing any sinful acts). and remember the purpose of prophet is being fulfilled. but unfortunately todays socalled Muslims islam has just been limited to the acceptance or rejection of the prophet rather than being the followance of prophet which is the major thing. if some one accepts PBUH he'll go to heaven and if someone rejects he'll go to hell, the story ends here for them.

Hayfa Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368	Post Options Post Reply Quote Hayfa Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 12 July 2008 at 2:42pm
	Well it can be said Believer that Allah sent the word to many places. So Allah gave to people and in their arrogance and ego, altered it. And thus we have the Quran.. Allah did not fail, we people failed.
	When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi

believer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397	Post Options Post Reply Quote believer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 July 2008 at 3:39pm
	Isaiah 40 6 A voice says, "Cry out." And I said, "What shall I cry?" "All men are like grass, and all their glory is like the flowers of the field. 7 The grass withers and the flowers fall, because the breath of the LORD blows on them. Surely the people are grass. 8 The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever."
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

believer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397	Post Options Post Reply Quote believer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 July 2008 at 5:47am
	Where in the Quran does it say the message was lost? So you are saying that Allah failed to guard the Gospel, his Holy WORD?!?
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

honeto Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487	Post Options Post Reply Quote honeto Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 July 2008 at 5:56pm
	believer, we have talked on some of these issues before in other threads, but no problem revisiting them. You asked: "Why does a person have to believe in Mohammad to be considered a believer? Believing in GOD is not enough?" It is important to remember that we believe in a lot of things, the point is to believe as what? For example: - to believe in God as your maker, and the Only Creator. - to believe in revelations sent by God in different times to various prophets. - to believe in the prophets of God such as Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) for our era is to acknowledge that the message of worship to One God in its purity reached to us through him. Thus the acknowledgement is, that he was a servant and a messanger of God, a man, a guide for mankind, nothing less and nothing more than that. We don't worship him, don't regard him as a saint, nor we make him a Lord or a god, as God through him has told us that if any do so, will do wrong. Furhter you wrote: "Muslims need to put the thought that We do not have the complete Gospel of Jesus to rest!! Remember the Quran verifies that we have the Gospel- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John." Quran does not mentions Gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and JOhn as you quoted. However, it does tell us the Gospel was given to Jesus, a messanger of God. In fact Quran mentions many prophets who were given message from God for their times. Quran says that what was sent through Jesus(pbuh) was lost, thus leaving humanity without pure guidance, that's when God sent the Quran through Prophet Mohammed (pbuh), as a guiding light. Acknowledging him as our teacher is no different than acknowledging your school teacher without whom the classroom is incomplete. No teacher, no class, no lesson, no learning, no progress, no achievement, no graduation, simple as that. I am not a scholar, one don't need to be in order to understand the role of a teacher. And we must also remember to give the respect that a teacher deserves, and not to raise him to other levels where he does not belong. Hasan Edited by honeto - 10 July 2008 at 6:33pm
	The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

believer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397	Post Options Post Reply Quote believer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 July 2008 at 10:09am
	I believe that many of the Jews had stopped following the laws or had twisted them a bit before Jesus came. minuteman-Can you show where and how the Christians made Lords of the desciples? Unless of course you are talking about the Catholic church then I can understand what you mean. Muslims need to put the thought that We do not have the complete Gospel of Jesus to rest!! Remember the Quran verifies that we have the Gospel- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. 005.047 YUSUFALI: Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. PICKTHAL: Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers. SHAKIR: And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors. Think if we do not then Allah has failed to guard over it!!! 005.048 YUSUFALI: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; PICKTHAL: And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ. SHAKIR: And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;
	John 3 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.