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Melco View Drop Down
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Joined: 20 February 2006
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Points: 107 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Melco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2006 at 9:09am
I didn't think the cartoons were funny, but I wonder if Muslims aren't doing the very thing they are trying to avoid doing making an idol out of a man. Muhammad ought to be respected as a man, imperfect though he was. We shouldn't make idols out of anyone, even a great prophet. He may have been given a special role, but he killed people in his day and he had many wives, and also many children (and you don't get those from just preaching). He may have been good, but he wasn't an angel, or less so a god. If Muhammad was alive to day, he would say worship God alone, I got my reward, honour me as the less than perfect man that I am and no more. 
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Joined: 20 March 2005
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Points: 1647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2006 at 8:54am
I can't help it if you are not even willing to read, what to talk about understanding it. As how "seperation of church and state" can be put to hold in Islamic law, despite your very logical and genuine concerns, should not have been so difficult, provided one has the will to understand another side of the picutre too. Hmm! How difficult it is for people to know about others, this is definitely one thing that I am realising.
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liberty View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 February 2006
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Points: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liberty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2006 at 8:24am

I began reading your linked post but when I came to the following statement, I was done.

"To do this you must first put on hold the preconceived notion of "separation of church and state." 

I can not and will not put this "notion" on hold as if it is not important to us.  We depend upon this "notion" for freedom of religion and protection from religious persecution.  Just calling it a notion is quite insulting to me!

Didn't read much more after this, since anything thereafter meant putting this "notion" on hold.  We have and will have no religous based laws in this country.  However, just a Christians in the this country do, you may follow whatever code of laws from any book(Bible, Koran, etc) that you wish but do not, do not, do not attempt to make it law of the land!

By the way, if I understand this, then all muslims must follow the same laws and lose some freedoms because of their choice of religion.  That is not what the United States is about!
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Points: 1647 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2006 at 7:47am

Originally posted by mark mark wrote:

.......My question still stands from my first post, to the Muslims here, are you really offended by these pictures? .....

Is this a Joke?? Without arguing upon your reply as whatever it may be, personally speaking, I did get hurt by the cartoons. Even more hurt when people with wisdom, those who are incharge d'affairs, just raised their handsup for not doing much to contain the plague.

Originally posted by wrangel wrangel wrote:

..... Acts of violence must be unconditionally condemned.........
Yap! I fully agree with you. Nevertheless, whatever explanations have been given, are only for those who labled "Islam" for such acts of voilance. Hence it was considered necessary to distinguish between the two; actions of Muslims and principles of Islam. This is not to put any conditions on condemning the voilance.

Originally posted by liberty liberty wrote:

....

In your version of democracy would all laws decided on by the people be subject to approval with Islamic Law. .....

For an idea of as how to understand Islamic law viz a viz the concept of "church and state", kindly read here: http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3629& ; ;PN=1

Hope this may help you understand, when you said "

This is what makes me, as a Westerner who loves living in a secular society, very nervous.  We do not want Islamic Law in our lands and here is proof that many Muslims do."

Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

If that happens then Christians in the ME can do the same but I do not see that happening.
 I think, you may also like to look at the article referred in the above mentioned link, concerning some myths and facts about Islamic law.

Originally posted by ketchup ketchup wrote:

hu??? Its a breakfast cereal I have every morning GRRRRRRRR!  If you didnt like the taste of currants and sultanas you would find it a pest removing them too.
I am glad that I was right about you. Thanks.



Edited by AhmadJoyia
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pauline35 View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 November 2005
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Points: 459 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pauline35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2006 at 7:31am
Fighting cock is a loser....
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Ketchup View Drop Down
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Points: 349 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ketchup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2006 at 7:16am

Originally posted by pauline35 pauline35 wrote:

AHMADJOYIA WROTE
What shall anyone understand what this "musli" is, if picking on "musli m" not being done, here?

If anyone have trouble to pick a "musli" for a date or something like that purpose, I can understand that; but its beyond imagination, epecially if its coming from people like you, ketchup.



It's SHE you are talking to and a real fighting cock. Her every words delivered are not making any sense. She's not listening but only shooting to win-win.

[yawns]very droll[/yawns]
"The days followed one another patiently. Right back at the beginning of the multiverse they had tried all passing at the same time, and it hadn't worked."
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pauline35 View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 November 2005
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Points: 459 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pauline35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2006 at 6:30am
AHMADJOYIA WROTE
What shall anyone understand what this "musli" is, if picking on "musli m" not being done, here?

If anyone have trouble to pick a "musli" for a date or something like that purpose, I can understand that; but its beyond imagination, epecially if its coming from people like you, ketchup.



It's SHE you are talking to and a real fighting cock. Her every words delivered are not making any sense. She's not listening but only shooting to win-win.
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liberty View Drop Down
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Joined: 08 February 2006
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Points: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote liberty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2006 at 5:50am

In fact the sooner we get round to sorting out this and other systems of accommodating all the minority groups the less nervous everyone would be.

Accommodating minority groups... what does that mean?  Every person living in the United States lives by the same laws, of course laws do vary somewhat from state to state, but Jews live by the same laws as atheists as Christians! 

If a small number of citizens wish to follow Islamic Law then by all means follow it but it will not become law of the land to satisfy some minority. 

You seem to think that a group would be satisfied with changing the laws for a small group or a certain geographic region.  That is how it would begin and then hopes of expanding it would grow.  Nope, not going for that.  Only secular and democratically determined laws for me in the United States, thanks.  I trust people who love their freedom above all else and want them to decide upon laws, and not to be determined by some book written over a thousand years ago whether it is the Koran, Bible, etc.

Again, if you are not happy with the secular laws of this country, move to a state which has the Islamic Laws that are desired!  This, of course is meant for the 40%.  And I am sure that is how most of the English feel and if this push continues there will be a serious backlash for Muslim citizens in the West.
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