What is the Anti-Christ in Islam

Caringheart wrote: islamispeace wrote: caringheart wrote: if it was the teaching of Paul, it is because it comes from the words of Yshwe Himself, as has been shown many times, so I will spare us both by not going over it again.   I already know that you do not see.  (the words of Yshwe are recorded in the Gospels to be read... and the Holy Spirit gives understanding) If you take issue with the claim of Yshwe to be God, then you must take issue with Yshwe Himself... you must reject Yshwe... it was He that made the claim many times and many ways. Why were the Jews so offended by Him that they sought to have Him killed?  What a load of baloney, especially the part in bold.  How convenient it is that only those who have the "holy spirit" will "understand" the incoherent and contradictory Bible.  Your qur'an says essentially the same... allah guides...

Um, no it doesn't.  The Quran urges people to use their common sense.  It only says that those people who have earned God's wrath have had their hearts "sealed" so that they will never believe.  But, people whom Allah has not condemned can still use their common sense.

Why do you keep ignoring my post about Paul's contradictory views on food sacrificed to idols?

Caringheart wrote: islamispeace wrote: caringheart wrote: He submitted to the Father, yes... to the Superior part of Himself. Yikes.  So, he worshiped himself?  He was a man, a prophet, a worshiper of God, yet you think that he actually "submitted" to himself, but only to the "superior part".  That's the incoherence of Christian theology. I think it is quite similar to the muslim concept of the higher jihad.

Please don't apply your blasphemous ideas to Muslims.  They are your beliefs, not ours. 

Why have you been ignoring my post about Paul's overriding of Jesus' teaching about the prohibition of eating food sacrificed to idols? 


Edited by islamispeace - 07 October 2014 at 11:55am

caringheart wrote: I share your concern that many who think they are Christians will indeed be easily misled when the anti-Christ comes.

But why?  Is it not that they would nothing objectionable to the Dajjal's claim that he is God, since they already believe that Jesus was "God"?

caringheart wrote: He submitted to the Father, yes... to the Superior part of Himself.

Yikes.  So, he worshiped himself?  He was a man, a prophet, a worshiper of God, yet you think that he actually "submitted" to himself, but only to the "superior part".  That's the incoherence of Christian theology.

caringheart wrote: There have been many seeming to teach in the name of Yshwe, but teaching a different Gospel than the one which He taught.

And Paul was one of them.

caringheart wrote: The book of Acts is not a book of beliefs, it is a recording of events.

But it was written by men. 

caringheart wrote: Thank you for the clarification.

You're welcome, even though I know I have made this "clarification" elsewhere.

caringheart wrote: Ahh, but this was the teaching of Yshwe Himself... which muslims refuse to accept...

Ahh, no it wasn't.  It was the "teaching" of false prophets like Paul and other shifty individuals who kept their identities secret and who forged documents to give the impressions that Jesus claimed to be "God". 

caringheart wrote: if it was the teaching of Paul, it is because it comes from the words of Yshwe Himself, as has been shown many times, so I will spare us both by not going over it again.   I already know that you do not see.  (the words of Yshwe are recorded in the Gospels to be read... and the Holy Spirit gives understanding) If you take issue with the claim of Yshwe to be God, then you must take issue with Yshwe Himself... you must reject Yshwe... it was He that made the claim many times and many ways. Why were the Jews so offended by Him that they sought to have Him killed?

What a load of baloney, especially the part in bold.  How convenient it is that only those who have the "holy spirit" will "understand" the incoherent and contradictory Bible. 

The Jews were offended because he claimed to be a prophet of God and the Messiah.  The claim that they were offended because he claimed to be "God" is based on the New Testament accounts, which we know are not reliable. 

Paul invented his own theology, but to give it appeal, he claimed to have received it from Jesus. 

caringheart wrote: The easiest way for muslims to support their belief, by rejecting what Christianity teaches, is to try and vilify Paul.  It just isn't correct.

 

And the easiest way for Christians to deceive themselves is to lionize the false apostle Paul.  It just isn't correct.

caringheart wrote: The false prophets are all those that do not teach the fullness of what is in the scriptures, but teach only the part of the message that suits the 'itching ears'... that teaches what people want to hear... that makes the message palatable so that more people are drawn (albeit falsely) to what they think is faith. Yshwe's message was not an easy message... in fact 'there were many that turned away' after they heard what He had to say, because they could not accept it. The apostles' were known to say, 'Master, this is an hard teaching, who can follow it'. There have been many ministers teaching an easier message because it is what suits the human mind.

Hmmm, that sounds like Paul to me.  When the Gentiles found it hard to become circumcised or to follow the Jewish dietary laws (such as not allowing the eating of food that had been sacrificed to idols), Paul allowed them to forgo these laws.  This is exactly what a false prophet would have done, according to your definition! 




Edited by islamispeace - 07 October 2014 at 11:58am

islamispeace wrote: This is why I think Christians will be so vulnerable to the Dajjal's deception.  As we have seen throughout history, it is a habit of Christians to label others as "anti-Christ".  It is highly likely that many Christian fanatics will label Imam Mahdi as the "anti-Christ" and then when the Dajjal comes, these people will flock to him, think that he is the Messiah.  In fact, the full title of this evil figure in Arabic is "Al-Masih Ad-Dajjal", the "Impostor Messiah".  Christians could be easily duped into worshiping that abomination because they already worship Jesus!

Greetings islamispeace,

I share your concern that many who think they are Christians will indeed be easily misled when the anti-Christ comes.

islamispeace wrote:  Jesus (peace be upon him) was a man.  He was a prophet.  He worshiped God.  Do you deny these things?

He submitted to the Father, yes... to the Superior part of Himself.  (higher jihad ?)

islamispeace wrote: The fact remains that Paul was the one who claimed to be sent by Jesus.  Jesus warned of false prophets who would come in his name.  If it wasn't Paul, then who was Jesus referring to?  Who else came in his name?

There have been many seeming to teach in the name of Yshwe, but teaching a different Gospel than the one which He taught.

islamispeace wrote: You are so blind, that you don't even see the irony of your statement!  You quoted the Book of Acts as your support for the idea that Satan flees from the mention of Jesus's name, but what is the Book of Acts if not the "belief" of men?  Acts was allegedly written by Luke...a man.  Eureka!

The book of Acts is not a book of beliefs, it is a recording of events.

islamispeace wrote: As I have already told you, Muslims believe in the Quran and authentic hadiths.  The belief that Satan runs in grief when he sees a Muslim prostrating to Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) is found in the latter.

Thank you for the clarification.

islamispeace wrote: The main objectionable teaching of Paul was the divinity of Jesus.

Ahh, but this was the teaching of Yshwe Himself... which muslims refuse to accept...
if it was the teaching of Paul, it is because it comes from the words of Yshwe Himself, as has been shown many times, so I will spare us both by not going over it again.   I already know that you do not see.  (the words of Yshwe are recorded in the Gospels to be read... and the Holy Spirit gives understanding)
If you take issue with the claim of Yshwe to be God, then you must take issue with Yshwe Himself... you must reject Yshwe... it was He that made the claim many times and many ways.
Why were the Jews so offended by Him that they sought to have Him killed?


The easiest way for muslims to support their belief, by rejecting what Christianity teaches, is to try and vilify Paul.  It just isn't correct.

islamispeace wrote: If the "point is well taken", yet you still believe that Paul was not a false prophet as Jesus warned, then the question is who were the "false prophets" that Jesus warned would come in his name?  Was it a false prophecy that was erroneously attributed to Jesus, just like the false prophecy that Jesus would return in the lifetimes of the first generation of Christians?

The false prophets are all those that do not teach the fullness of what is in the scriptures, but teach only the part of the message that suits the 'itching ears'... that teaches what people want to hear... that makes the message palatable so that more people are drawn (albeit falsely) to what they think is faith.
Yshwe's message was not an easy message... in fact
'there were many that turned away' after they heard what He had to say, because they could not accept it.
The apostles' were known to say, 'Master, this is an hard teaching, who can follow it'.
There have been many ministers teaching an easier message because it is what suits the human mind.

asalaam and blessings to you,
CH

Of course, we could both be wrong,
maybe Yswhe was trying to teach a pagan message to Jews...
but then we must reject Yshwe,
and can we reject Him?
Can we really say that He did not bring a needed thing to the world?
Can we say His message was not good?


Edited by Caringheart - 08 October 2014 at 11:28am