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robin 
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Joined: 17 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 595 |
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 Posted: 22 July 2008 at 2:52pm |
That is not what Jesus said:-
Matthew 28:16-20
However, the eleven disciples went into Gal�i�lee to the mountain where Jesus had arranged for them, 17 and when they saw him they did obeisance, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."
Acts 1:8
but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju�de�a and Sa�mar�i�a and to the most distant part of the earth."
Matthew 24:14
And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.
Revelation 14:6
And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people, Edited by robin - 22 July 2008 at 2:52pm |
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believer
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Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397 |
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Posted: 22 July 2008 at 2:04pm |
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minuteman - By saying Remember Jews and Christians are not polytheists. We have a different perception of what the One True GOD is. I am not trying to combine Jews and Christians into one faith. One must not compare Jesus with Mohammad, but with the Quran. Is one Allah's inanimate word for man, for we know the other is GOD's Living Word for man.
honeto -
Psalm 12
6The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. The message of Jesus was to correct all the false practices of the Jews and THEN with His death fulfill the law so that all Gentile would be able to be grafted onto the vine of the Jews.
There was no way to change the words of the Holy Scripture for there were too many copies floating around. This for sure is talking about the deeds of the Christians.
Don't Muslims say that Allah does not abrogate scruipture?
Which verses were written first?
One could say that the Old testament is for just the Jews, but you can not say that about the New Testament.
The proof is not strong enough to present the Quran as GOD's Word.
I do believe it is possible that God's Word might be hidden safely in the Quran but not as it has been translated today.
minuteman - thank you for that statement I appreciate it!-- believers and they are our beloved brethren.
Maybe it is a test for us from GOD to see how we treat each other!?!
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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minuteman
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Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642 |
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Posted: 18 July 2008 at 11:51pm |
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Very True. The message of Jesus was only for the Israelis and not for the whole world for all times. The Jews, under slavery of the Egyptians had become hard hearted. So they were given a hard law which they violated and did not apply with sincerity (and wisdom). There was too much strictness on the outer words without understanding the inner significance.
So came Jesus with the proper understanding of the Torah with some love and compassion, to work within the same law of Torah. he had come to relieve the Jews from their false practices and from their subjugation of the Romans. But the people in Kana'an, under the misguided Jewish clergy were so far off the real mark that they opposed the man of God (Jesus) and got ready to kill him.
The message of Jesus was only for the Jews and for the time only. It was not required to be forever. There is enough evidence in the bible that Jesus teaching was only for the Jews. There is 100% proof in the Quran that Jesus teaching was only for the children of Jacob (Israel). So, it was not required to be preserved. God did not fail to protect it. It happened according to the plan of Allah.
But when came the quran, it is final and last testament, a message from Allah. It should not be lost. So Allah took care for it and told in the Quran itself that He had revealed that knowledge (Quran) and that he was its guardian. We are not saying it. Allah said it Himself in the final testament and we believe that the teachings of the Quran are forever.
The Jews and christians are believers and they are our beloved brethren. Edited by minuteman - 18 July 2008 at 11:56pm |
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honeto
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Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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Posted: 18 July 2008 at 5:02pm |
believer,
sorry I have been away for a while, but here I am.
I think as a group you are not very well coordinated or if you are a single person you have very short memory like myself, but I remember I have answered your very same question from the Quran last time, may be no more than a month ago.
But anyway here is the answer and the quotes from the Final Testament, The Holy Quran again, regarding changing of the Law, and the Gospel (now known as the Bible) by their followers:
Al Maidah (5):12 God did aforetime take a Covenant from the Children of Israel......(13) their hearts grew hard. They changed the words from their places and forgot a good part of the messsage that was sent them........... 14 From those who call themselves Christians we did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them.........soon will God show them what it is they have done. As far as your rhetoric that why God could not guard his word, I will say, for God nothing is impossible, but if that would have been God's plan surely we would have Adam as the first and the final messanger and one Word of guidance since then. And there would have been no other prophets and books sent after Adam. No need would have been for Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus or Mohammed (pbut).
Only in the Quran, God mentions that He will guard it (the Quran) till the End. Also Quran is the Final Testament God has sent to mankind for guidance.
Hasan Edited by honeto - 18 July 2008 at 5:19pm |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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minuteman
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Posted: 16 July 2008 at 6:57pm |
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Believer, you are tying the Jewish faith with the church faith. Both are different, miles apart. A good reply is given above by Semar. I may add a few lines for your information. Our prophet was acting as Jesus in Makkah and as Moses in Madinah. Thus representing the good works of both those prophets. See below:
Our prophet (you have questioned his teachings) had two names, Ahmad and Muhammad. Ahmad means "The one who praises Allah maximum". It is also having love and beauty and peacefulness. The name Muhammad means "The one whom Allah praises most of all". Muhammad means the praised one. It is the Jalaali name of our prophet. The name Ahmad is a name having beauty and love and gentleness. It is called a Jamaali name. The name Muhammad means the praised one. That name carries power and authority and glory. Our prophet was a good example of Jesus and Moses a.s. While in Makkah, the prophet was acting according to his name Ahmad. That was more like the works of Jesus. The prophet was in similar circumstances as was Jesus in Kana'an. There was much opposition and persecution of the believers. So the prophet acted on the same principles of non-retaliation in Makkah as Jesus was doing in his time. The prophet was being guided by Allah all the time and he was spreading the message with love and kindness. (Add to that what is written above by semar). The other example of our prophet is that of Moses a.s. Because it is clearly written in the Quran that our prophet is the same type of messenger as was sent to pharoah ( that means Moses a.s.). So the other role our prophet had was that of the like of Moses a.s. That role was manifested in madinah where the prophet was acting in the name of Muhammad. That was with glory and power, the like of Moses a.s. So there is no mistake any where. Both your prophets (Moses and Jesus) are present in the life of our prophet. Can you please understand. He completed the work of both of your prophets. That is gentleness and glory (power). The role of Moses was was one sided. That was a kind of harsh role. No gentleness. The role of Jesus was complete gentleness and love. No harsh deed. (that is one sided too). Both the roles were incomplete. Our prophet represented the true pattern of life to the mankind, i.e. the true natural path for the mankind along with the highest degree of spiritualism which could lead mankind to be close to God in this world and the hereafter. Edited by minuteman - 16 July 2008 at 7:05pm |
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semar
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Male Islam Joined: 11 March 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1830 |
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Posted: 16 July 2008 at 3:22pm |
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Salam/Peace
Mecca verses of the Quran that revealed during early birth of Islam mostly talked about aqeedah (faith, the concept of God). Because during this period Allah/God wanted to correct the polytheist concept that adopted by the Arabs, worshiping idols etc. The monotheist foundation was being built on this period.
Medina verses of the Quran that revealed on the later stage of his prophecy mostly talked about muamalah (deed, how to deal with other human being such as family, community etc). During this period the concept of monotheism had been accepted and the foundation of faith already strong enough so the verses that revealed on that period were addressed to take care social and community matters.
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Salam/Peace,
Semar "We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH) "1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air" |
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believer
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Posted: 16 July 2008 at 2:51pm |
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Yes minuteman - By doing good deeds, a believers puts a stamp on his beliefs.
Remember Jews and Christians are not polytheists. We have a different perception of what the One True GOD is.
Faith without deeds is dead.
Everyone can see the difference between the Old and New Testaments. I think Mohammad started out trying to be close to GOD. Have you noticed the differance between the Mecca and Medina verses?
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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H3OO
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Joined: 11 July 2008 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 215 |
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Posted: 15 July 2008 at 11:04pm |
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minute man u are totally right and i dont think i have taken belief and deeds as one thing either. and thats why i clearly said that that to be a momin it is not necessary to be a believer (not being a believer in the sense i stated before) and similarly it is not necessary that if one is a believer, he is a momin too which shows that it has more got to do with followance of the good deeds that prophets of God placed before us (some of which i stated in my prev post) rather than just being mere believer (that is having believe in prophet pbuh), and so a nonbeliever can be a momin too if he performs good deeds. so it clearly shows beliefs and deeds being two different things.
since we all are Muslims, hence believers, so we are pretty much clear (which u have further cleared in ur post) about things regarding them but the major problem exists regarding a nonbeliever, about what will their faith be. ofcourse most of the muslims openly state all of them kafirs and that they'll all go to hell which i dont agree with so thats why i wanted to state my opinion regarding them and that they can be a momin too who will go to heaven as well. so my post was written keeping a nonbeliever n view. and as regard a believer i have mentioned in my previous post on page 1 of this thread (in a reply to believer) that since he doesnt believe in Prophet (pbuh) so for me he isnt a believer and so its clear that to be a believer u have to be a believer in prophet [pbuh] and ofcourse also in all the other prophets of God, their books and all angels of God too as u stated, hence a muslim. so my def of believer clear too. i hope i got the meaning of ur post right and am able to clear my point of view. Edited by H3OO - 16 July 2008 at 12:26am |
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minuteman wrote: