Does God beget ? |
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robin
Senior Member Joined: 17 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 595 |
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"Lord" was a common form of address in the 1st century much like Sir, Master, Esquire, etc. today. Lord must be view in relation to conext and time frame (as with all Biblical texts). Today its meaning has been very much reduced in conection with forms of address!
FROM http://vines.mike-obrien.net/ 1(Lord) kurios (Noun) LORD 2despotes (Noun) 3megistan (Noun) 4kurieuo (Verb) 5katakurieuo (Verb) 6kuriakos (Adjective) Edited by robin - 23 July 2008 at 1:19am |
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minuteman
Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642 |
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That is true. It is the mistake of the bible writers. Quran blames them of those things. The Quran has warned every one not to take any one Other than God as their lords. (Arbab un min dun i Allah).
But what did the christians and the church do? They not only took Jesus as a Lord (which was forbidden) but they took the disciples as lords too. That was forbidden. That corrupted and made a mess of the bible. The real teachings of Jesus got lost on the way.
The Quran blames Jews for downgrading (and even killing) the men of God (i.e. why they are called Maghdhoob Alaihim). The Quran calls the christians as Dhaaleen i.e they went astray after getting the guidance. They also did the opposite of the Jews. The christians upgraded the men of God to a higher status than where they belonged. They made a god out of a simple messenger of God i.e. Jesus.
Another thing, the church tried to support inspiration against revelation (Wahi). Inspiration is of much lower level than revelation. The church said that the writers of the bible were inspired. But we Muslims believe that God spoke to the disciples, i.e. a higher status than inspiration. That is, God revealed special knowledge to the disciples. Quran does not blame the disciples of Jesus at all. But the bible NT says that all disciples neglected Jesus and fled, even cursed Jesus.
It may be true. But we Muslims do not have to believe such bad things. Edited by minuteman - 22 July 2008 at 9:35am |
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robin
Senior Member Joined: 17 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 595 |
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SHOW ME WHAT HAS BEEN REMOVED THEN!
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myahya
Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2008 Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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Robin,
I believe that the twelve disciples of Isa a.s. were faithful. The verses you quoted show a serious warning to people for not changing the Gospel, not removing from it a word and not adding to it a word. But people didn�t take this warning and changed the bible as much as they could. I would guess it happed even mostly in churches and especially they did their best to REMOVE many parts which used to clarify the truth explicitly. Edited by myahya - 22 July 2008 at 4:01am |
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robin
Senior Member Joined: 17 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 595 |
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John was not talking about the Gospels as the date of His & last Gospel is c. 98 C.E. and John finished the Revelation in C. 96 C.E.!
If Jesus teaching are not in the Bible then you have never read the 4 Gospels properly!
One example concerning Jesus' the Sermon on the Mount, it is reported that Mahatma Gandhi said to a onetime viceroy of India, Lord Irwin:
"When your country and mine shall get together on the teachings laid down by Christ in the Sermon on the Mount, we shall have solved the problems not only of our countries but those of the whole world."
That Sermon contains the Golden Rule. In keeping with Matthew�s theme, he tells that Jesus had come not to destroy the law of Moses but to fulfill it and that the Golden Rule actually was what the Law and the prophets were all about.�See Matt. 5:17 & 7:12.
You will note that Jesus many times explains what the Law means & how it is to be applied. Edited by robin - 22 July 2008 at 12:47am |
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minuteman
Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642 |
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John was talking about th efour gospels. Then why were the acts and other so much material from paul added into the bible. There is very little real teachings of Jesus in the bible. The maximum is the philosophy of paul that is added to the bible (The four gospels).
Paul came in the name of Jesus. Muhammad came in the name of Allah as it says in the Quran "In the name of Allah, the Beneficient, the Ever Merciful". Jesus had warned about the false ones who would come in his name. Edited by minuteman - 21 July 2008 at 10:22pm |
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robin
Senior Member Joined: 17 May 2008 Status: Offline Points: 595 |
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As Jesus himself had penned by his faithful follower John (of the Gospel) that there was to be no more scripture added to or following the Bible:-
Revelation 1:1
A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John,
Revelation 22:18-19
"I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; 19 and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll.
The Bible is God's word complete!
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myahya
Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2008 Status: Offline Points: 222 |
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Robin: But the Bible has not change it
and that is what matters! It has not changed what? That
people should believe in Isa a.s. and follow him? Today, following him can not
be fulfilled by denying the prophet after him while Isa a.s. has not been
the last one. Therefore, believing in him is not changed but following him can
be truly achieved through following the prophet after him who is the last one.
I (as a Muslim) believe in
Isa a.s. and am following Mohammad s.a.w.a. who is the prophet after Isa a.s.,
and consistent to what Isa a.s. proclaimed with regards to believing in
Mohammad s.a.w.a. and following him. A so called Christian who does not believe
in Mohammad s.a.w.a., is not following Isa a.s. in this matter. If you be
sincere in your faith and Holy Scripture you will find many verses corresponding
to Mohammad s.a.w.a., Islam, and Islamic history even from the present very corrupted
Gospels. On what ground does one want to believe in Isa a.s. denying
Mohammad s.a.w.a.? Does it fall into the same category of the one that many Jews
have selected to believe in Mosa a.s. denying Isa a.s.? Allaho�alam. Edited by myahya - 20 July 2008 at 8:05am |
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