Holy Qur'an and Jesus' Trinity

I would like to emphasize just one more belief.  I have noticed many responses from individuals stating their belief that there is no Holy Trinity because there has always just been ONE GOD.  If you take a moment to absorb what is being written by non-Muslims, we are saying the same thing.  I fully, with all my heart, know there is just ONE GOD.  Where we seem to begin our infamous disconnect is that in that ONE GOD are 3 separate entities.  (Father -God, Son-Jesus, Holy Ghost-Spirit), and these three combine to make up ONE GOD, which is the God of Moses and Abraham.   So I hope that this will settle the one God versus three Gods, which we do not believe in and never have.  I am saddened to see that so many well-intended Muslims still hold the notion that non-Muslims believe in polytheism.  That is false. 

Edited by AgnesDei - 20 March 2011 at 7:25am

Mansoor_ali wrote: There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up �one God.�

Edited by Egwpisteuw - 19 March 2011 at 5:02am

Jack Catholic wrote: By�posting the above, aren't you agreeing with Egwpisteuw when he posted the comment:� "..the picture being�painted here is one of a single fork with three prongs..." in that the prongs are definately sperate, as you say, though the fork is but one fork? �

Are you saying that the above analogy represents rightly the concept of trinity?how rightly (three prongs)represent Father,Son,Holy Spirit?even analogy is absolutely wrong.it doesnot represent a concept of trinity accurately.

Trinitarias say that each person in the Trinity is God, remember they say Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is also God.

Are you telling me that each separate prong is fork?so its mean prong 1 is a fork.prong 2 is a fork.and prong 3 is a fork. we donot say that.we say that these 3 prongs make up a fork.we do not say that each specific prong of the fork is the fork!

Jack Catholic wrote: Next in your post, you wrote:� "In verse John 10:28-30, talking about his followers as his sheep, he states: "...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father who gave them me, is greater than all, and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are One."You continued, "These verses prove only that Jesus and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. It does not at all state that Jesus is God's equal in everything."Finally, you posted, "In fact the words of Jesus, " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than ALL...," �in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus." � Jesus is speaking of two groups in John 10:28-30:� 1) a group that includes "any man" suggesting all men who might wishing to pluck the sheep out of Jesus hand, and 2) "I and the Father" as the second group.� Can you show where in John 10:28-30 that the passage states word for word, "My Father, who gave them to me is greater than all of us..."?� � Can you�also show that the word "all" does not specifically refer to the first of the two�groups identified by the words�"any man" and not including either the Father or the one referred to by "I" who is Jesus in the second group? � Another logical question...� Why would Jesus say "all" to include himself if the context of the passage is in reference to men plucking out of his hand what is in it, for would Jesus be plucking out of his own hand that which he had gathered in it intending to keep? � Just some questions to think about.� And yes, the questions are presented with the intention that they be answered. � I hope you are well and that God has blessed you since we last posted to one another, � Jack Catholic�

I don�t understand why you Christians quote this verse,because what does this verse prove? Trinitarians do not believe Jesus is the Father, so why do you quote it?Are you quoting it to try and show that Jesus is equal to the Father? Well that isn�t true, since the Gospel of John shows the opposite, in fact if we quote one verse back we read:

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

This is verse 29, it comes right before verse 30, and in verse 29 Jesus says the Father is greater than ALL, this obviously includes Jesus since he is not the Father. So therefore how to you try and assume that this verse shows equality between Jesus and the Father is beyond me, just a verse before it Jesus says the Father is greater than everyone!

In fact this is not the first time that Jesus says the Father is greater than him, he does it again later:

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: my Father is greater than I[(John 14:28)

So here we once again have Jesus claiming the Father is greater than him, so how is Jesus equal to the Father when Jesus says the contrary? Now you have come up with a way of trying to explain this verse off,you say that Jesus was talking as a man here, that as a man the Father is greater than him,you try and say that the Father meant he is greater than Jesus in rank and authority and not in essence.

However so what did Jesus mean in John 10 when Jesus said the Father is greater than ALL? Jesus placed himself in the category of ALL people, so therefore your will not work for John 10:29. It must be said though that the Christian response does not work for John chapter 14:28 neither, because the Christian argues from silence and is arguing something they have yet to prove. Christians cannot prove that Jesus has 2 natures, they can never get a single quote from the lips of Jesus saying I am man and Divine, that I have 2 natures and I gave one up and took on the man nature, this is non-existent, so therefore the response is from silence provided with no proof or a solid basis.

1-The fact is the Bible shows that the Father is greater than Jesus in essence, the Father is all-knowing and Jesus is not.

2-The Father gives Jesus everything from miracle to doctrine.

3-Jesus begs the Father to save him, obviously showing that life and death is controlled by the Father and NOT Jesus.

For all these arguments the Christian will say as man Jesus is not all-knowing, as man Jesus receives things from the Father, however so I will kindly ask the Christian bring this proof from the words of Jesus, they shall never be able to do it, this doctrine is an invention and not something to be found from Jesus.

So therefore in conclusion, John 10:30 proves nothing in support of the divinity of Jesus, it does not show equality, since Jesus made it clear that the Father is greater than him, so therefore Jesus is not equal with the Father.

Egwpisteuw wrote: Matthew 28:19 " Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,"   Notice in the quoted passage the word, "name," a singular word referring to Allah, yet followed by three names:  1)  "Father,"  2) "Son,"  and 3) "Holy Spirit."  Since the beginning of the Christian faith, the Apostles and those whom they instructed have understood this to mean one God...in three persons.  This has never been understood by Catholics or Orthodox Christians to referr to three seperate gods, but rather one and only one God.