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7 Earths in the Qur'an, and recently discovered

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Al Ghuraba View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 May 2017 at 2:12pm
It has been recently discovered (in february 2017) that there are 7 Earth-like planets almost 40 light-years away from where we are. These newly discovered planets are considered, by the scientists, as "Earth-like". For the full story, you could visit the link below:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/02/seven-planets-not-aliens-nasa-earth-space-science/

Or, you can just Google it, or whatever. Since this discovery was made, this made me think of a particular verse in the Qur'an, mentioning that there are 7 other "Earths". I was expecting some big Muslim YouTube channel like The Daily Reminder, Merciful Servant, or other big YouTube channels, to make a video about this discovery and its mention in the Qur'an. To my surprise, no-one seemed to actually inform others about this. Since no-one took that oppurtunity, I decided to do it.

First read the article, so you understand what those newly discovered planets are.


Alright, as for the verse...


Qur'an, chapter 65, verse 12:

"It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah surrounds (comprehends) all things in (His) Knowledge."


It is the first sentence that I would like to highlight, since that's the subject of this post. The first sentence declares that Allah (SWT) created 7 Heavens, and of the Earth, the like thereof. The Arabic word used for "the like thereof", is "mithlahunna" (see the actual verse in Arabic).

"Mithlahun" is basically "idem dito" in English. In other words, saying that it's in the same example.

So when it says that there are 7 Heavens, and of the Earth, the like thereof, then it means two things:


1. There are 7 Seven Earths besides Earth (the like thereof; there were 7 Heavens, so 7 additional Earths, not 7 in total, because it already uses Earth as the example, THEN it says "the like thereof" - so one Earth, and THEN 7 more. It's like when you say: "I have one car, but you have 2 cars that are exactly the same as mine". How many cars are there in total? Three. My car, and the other 2 are yours. Same thing with this. 1 + 7 Earths.)

2. These Earths are like our Earth (because they're "the like thereof", specifically mentioning the nature of these Earths as well, because "idem dito" basically means "same"; so the same in number, and the same in the nature of the object itself).


This is where the discovery plays in. There were 7 planets discovered, and they are considered to be "Earth-like". It confirms those two points. Remember that the Qur'an was revealed for more than 1400 years ago, yet this discovery was made THIS YEAR. It's amazing to see that there are scientific miracles in the Qur'an STILL BEING DISCOVERED, and YET to be discovered! Proof that the Qur'an is obviously from the Creator, but also proof that the Qur'an is for every generation relevant. There are probably still scientific claims in the Qur'an yet to be discovered, while we don't even know. Maybe it's going to take a long time, maybe even tomorrow. God knows best.


See how man is arrogant to think he knows much, when the Truth is ahead of him. Only this year this has been discovered, yet the Qur'an foretold this more than 1400 years ago. See how limited the human is in scientific discovery, yet so arrogant to make claims, while many of them deny the Truth. The reality is that they - the humans - don't even know, but their pride won't display that particular fact, so many of the humans deny and turn away.



IMPORTANT

Regarding this topic and the verse mentioned; I could be wrong. It could be that the verse is talking about something else, and that these two are unrelated. I don't know. But I just wanted to mention this, because - to what I know - it seems to be talking about this - but Allah knows best. It could be that I made a mistake somewhere in my explanation/comments. Don't hold me responsible if I made a mistake. I'm but a sharer of what I think is what it is.


Peace be unto all of you.

Edited by Al Ghuraba - 11 May 2017 at 2:16pm
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airmano View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2017 at 12:51am
@Al Ghuraba
Quote Regarding this topic and the verse mentioned; I could be wrong. It could be that the verse is talking about something else...
This is indeed likely to be the case. The way you draw your conclusion makes the principle clear: To prove your theory that the Quran is a miracle you take 65:12 and you look for whatever observation you can find to match the number 7 in "7 heavens". You will always find a scientific observation for any number below say 10, which looks at least remotely related. In your case you can only achieve this by forcing the word "heaven" into the meaning of "earth" to be able to associate it with extrasolar planets.


But at least you're honest enough to have some doubts about your own theory.


That's honorable: Airmano

Edited by airmano - 12 May 2017 at 12:54am
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 2:29am
Astronomers have discovered 7 planets which are possibly a bit earth like, so far.

That's within 40 light years. So far.

When they say earth like they will almost certainly not be survivable by humans.

That they may have conditions suitable for life to eveolve to a high level such as here is possible. Maybe. But the likelyhood of them being at all habitable for us is very very low.

The planets could have too high a gravity and we could not walk for any length of time, too low gravity and animals with simpler breathing systems such as insects could be able to grow to massive sizes and eat us.

Loads of other factors which are even more drastic in their ability to make the places deadly for us are out there.

Also what happens when the next 300 planets are found?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Ghuraba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Astronomers have discovered 7 planets which are possibly a bit earth like, so far.That's within 40 light years. So far.When they say earth like they will almost certainly not be survivable by humans. That they may have conditions suitable for life to eveolve to a high level such as here is possible. Maybe. But the likelyhood of them being at all habitable for us is very very low.The planets could have too high a gravity and we could not walk for any length of time, too low gravity and animals with simpler breathing systems such as insects could be able to grow to massive sizes and eat us.Loads of other factors which are even more drastic in their ability to make the places deadly for us are out there. Also what happens when the next 300 planets are found?




You must understand that it's about those planets being "Earth-like", not necessarily inhabitable/survivable for the human-being... That's far beside the point. A planet is considered "Earth-like", not because of the lifeform on it, but because of specific things, which is known for planet Earth to have. It could be that there are planets out there, which DO harvest life, but might look completely different to Earth itself, and cannot possibly be called "Earth-like" therefore, you see. It could be - remember the knowledge of the human being is very much limited - that there are organisms out there that can survive on planets that don't even look like Earth. Maybe there's a planet out there where the temperature is 1 million degrees, but it still has some kind of organism living on it, you see? You don't know that! But you wouldn't class that planet as "Earth-like" would you? No. Inhabitable, yes, but not Earth-like.


Second point; those scientists said that three of those 7 planets are likely to harvest life (i.e. three of those planets are the most likely to be inhabitable, as for the other 4, it's less likely (but still likely; read the article)). Again, not relevant. Whether they are inhabitable or not, is not the topic. The topic is whether they are "Earth-like" or not.

Because, you see, Paradise is inhabitable, right (obviously, because you can be living there)? But it's not considered to be "Earth-like", is it? In fact, it's not even comparable. And also remember the SIZE of Paradise, the surroundings, the nature, etc.

In short, it's not about whether it's inhabitable or not. It's about whether it's "Earth-like" or not.


So, what's "Earth-like"?


First of all, Earth is known for it's earth and FLOWING water. The reason I'm emphasizing "flowing", is because that's typical Earth. There's no planet out there that has this quality in the same shape, that we know or have discovered. Water in of itself is not really exclusively to Earth. Water can be found inside of the Moon, if I'm not mistaken (lunar water), but it's not flowing (it's in crystals, etc.). That's the first thing. Second thing is the obvious: earth. For a planet to be called "Earth-like", it's got to have earth, at LEAST. I mean it's in the name... Whether that earth can be used to harvest life or not, is not relevant. There are many types of earth on our planet alone that are not suitable for life itself, you see. These two points HAVE TO BE present on an Earth-like planet. So far, only those 7 planets have both of these two characteristics.


THAT was the point.

And also, yes, life on Earth is a well-known fact. But... like I said, life is not exclusively assigned to Earth. Paradise has life aswell, and there could be planets out there, not looking like Earth, still being inhabitable by certain creatures.

And by the way, there could still be life on those 7 planets. I'm just saying whether there is or isn't; doesn't matter. Point made.


And what happens when the next 300 planets are found? Well, I don't know what "planets" alone have to do with this? This whole topic is about planets being EARTH-LIKE, not about there being 7 planets beside Earth...! Mars is planet, so is Mercury, Venus, Uranus, etc. Those aren't Earth-like. No, not Mars, because there's no proof for FLOWING water, or at least, not that I know of. Not every planet is Earth-like. So I don't get why you're asking about what happens when the next 300 planets are found... Those 300 planets could be un-Earth-like, so what's the point?


And also, like I said, it could be that that verse means something else entirely. Like maybe 7 other Earths where creatures are being tested, or maybe something else, MAYBE... Many possibilities can be imagined. I just wanted to share this one thing, because I don't think it's a coincidence, but then again, I'm a human being that's limited in knowledge.

And that goes for you aswell.

Edited by Al Ghuraba - 15 May 2017 at 10:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Ghuraba Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2017 at 10:37pm
Originally posted by airmano airmano wrote:

@Al Ghuraba
Quote Regarding this topic and the verse mentioned; I could be wrong. It could be that the verse is talking about something else...
This is indeed likely to be the case. The way you draw your conclusion makes the principle clear: To prove your theory that the Quran is a miracle you take 65:12 and you look for whatever observation you can find to match the number 7 in "7 heavens". You will always find a scientific observation for any number below say 10, which looks at least remotely related. In your case you can only achieve this by forcing the word "heaven" into the meaning of "earth" to be able to associate it with extrasolar planets.



The Qur'an is a miracle regardless of the actual meaning of the verse mentioned. There are loads of scientific miracles, as well as linguistic miracles, as well as historical miracles, etc. Whether you agree or not, is not relevant for reality. My shirt is white, and whether you believe that or not, doesn't change reality. It's white. Period. Whether you believe it to be miracles or not, is not relevant, because they ARE miracles. Period.

A person could be rejecting my shirt to be white, does that make his rejection a reality-changer? Isn't my shirt still white? Wasn't it always white? Will it not always be white (unless a different color gets applied, yeah whatever; you get the point)?

So, you, whoever you are, can have doubts about reality all you want. Earth doesn't wait for your view to be able to function, neither the sun, nor the moon. Nothing actually. Reality is reality, reality was reality, reality will be reality. Period.


And you said I took "whatever observation"? Again, I did say that what I said could not necessarily be what it actually means, but the verse is clear. There are 7 Heavens, AND 7 Earths. That; there's no doubt. But... what we don't know, is what those "7 Earths" is referring to exactly. You see? There are 7 though, without question. And I didn't force anything of interpretation. Go look at any translation of that verse. Some translations specifically mention there being 7 Earths, some mention there being Earths like ours (no specific number mentioned, because "the like thereof" could be referring to Earths like ours, but not specifically 7), and some mention both. I don't know which one of these three is the most correct, but the translations, and therefore also the understandings of this verse, are there. I mentioned the last case, because I don't think it's a coincidence that there are exactly 7 discovered, while also being Earth-like, so this is what I think is most likely - but AGAIN - I could be wrong.



God knows best.

Edited by Al Ghuraba - 15 May 2017 at 10:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airmano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 1:32pm
@Al Ghuraba

Amazing that you've chosen the color of your Tee-shirt as an example for reality. I change my Tee-shirt every day !

Jokes aside, the underlying subject is "reality" and you claim the so-called miracles in the Quran are real.

Let's check the facts:
-Why does no high level scientist get impressed by these "miracles" ?
-Why does only the Muslim world (believe to) see them ?
-Why are there no references to the "inspiration given by the Quran" in high ranked scientific journals ?

What worth is a reality that seems to be 'real' for about 20% of the world population only ?

I will give you some examples of more convincing facts:

- Newton/Einsteins mechanics is recognised all over the world independent of respective faith and religion.
- Maxwells equations have withstood any test since they were written down 150 y ago: Something the Quran can not even remotely dream of.   
- Quantum mechanics is alive an' kickin'.
- Biology and chemistry leaves all Quranic' statements of the kind "we are made out of clay" literally in the dust.

All educated Jews, Christians, Atheists and Hindus agree on those
----------------------------------------------------
To your case, let's have a look at the different translations of 65:12

Sahih International: It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them. [His] command descends among them so you may know that Allah is over all things competent and that Allah has encompassed all things in knowledge.

Pickthall: Allah it is who hath created seven heavens, and of the earth the like thereof. The commandment cometh down among them slowly, that ye may know that Allah is Able to do all things, and that Allah surroundeth all things in knowledge.

Yusuf Ali: Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.

Shakir: Allah is He Who created seven heavens, and of the earth the like of them; the decree continues to descend among them, that you may know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah indeed encompasses all things in (His) knowledge.

Muhammad Sarwar: It is God who has created the seven heavens and a like number of earths. His commandments are sent between them, so that you would know that God has power over all things and that His knowledge encompasses all.

Mohsin Khan: It is Allah Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah surrounds (comprehends) all things in (His) Knowledge.

Arberry: It is God who created seven heavens, and of earth their like, between them the Command descending, that you may know that God is powerful over everything and that God encompasses everything in knowledge.

----------------------------------------------------

It clearly talks of seven heavens. Do you have any proof for that ? Is there a door or any kind of Messenger to exchange information between them ?
Why 7 and not 8 ? Because Allah likes the number 7 ?

What a nonsense !

Than it carries on with 7 earth like things. Reading the translations, don't you think that it is much more rational to assume that Mohamed tried to express that the seven "earth like things" are a 'foretaste" of [the 7] heaven[s] to come (God knows when) - and nothing else ?

The fundamental difference between your approach and mine is the following:

You think that the Quran is always right and that facts have to (be) bend to this doctrine.

I('d) consider the Quran to be right if(!) it had really something verifiable and revolutionary new to tell.   

But it doesn't.

Ah, and btw. theories should be falsifiable: So, will you ditch the Quran once we have found 8 earth like planets ?

So, what is your criterion for the falsifiability of 65:12 ? I'd bet that you can't answer this question.


Airmano

Edited by airmano - 18 May 2017 at 4:42am
The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter")
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tim the plumber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2017 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by Al Ghuraba Al Ghuraba wrote:

Originally posted by Tim the plumber Tim the plumber wrote:

Astronomers have discovered 7 planets which are possibly a bit earth like, so far.That's within 40 light years. So far.When they say earth like they will almost certainly not be survivable by humans. That they may have conditions suitable for life to eveolve to a high level such as here is possible. Maybe. But the likelyhood of them being at all habitable for us is very very low.The planets could have too high a gravity and we could not walk for any length of time, too low gravity and animals with simpler breathing systems such as insects could be able to grow to massive sizes and eat us.Loads of other factors which are even more drastic in their ability to make the places deadly for us are out there. Also what happens when the next 300 planets are found?




You must understand that it's about those planets being "Earth-like", not necessarily inhabitable/survivable for the human-being... That's far beside the point. A planet is considered "Earth-like", not because of the lifeform on it, but because of specific things, which is known for planet Earth to have. It could be that there are planets out there, which DO harvest life, but might look completely different to Earth itself, and cannot possibly be called "Earth-like" therefore, you see. It could be - remember the knowledge of the human being is very much limited - that there are organisms out there that can survive on planets that don't even look like Earth. Maybe there's a planet out there where the temperature is 1 million degrees, but it still has some kind of organism living on it, you see? You don't know that! But you wouldn't class that planet as "Earth-like" would you? No. Inhabitable, yes, but not Earth-like.


Second point; those scientists said that three of those 7 planets are likely to harvest life (i.e. three of those planets are the most likely to be inhabitable, as for the other 4, it's less likely (but still likely; read the article)). Again, not relevant. Whether they are inhabitable or not, is not the topic. The topic is whether they are "Earth-like" or not.

Because, you see, Paradise is inhabitable, right (obviously, because you can be living there)? But it's not considered to be "Earth-like", is it? In fact, it's not even comparable. And also remember the SIZE of Paradise, the surroundings, the nature, etc.

In short, it's not about whether it's inhabitable or not. It's about whether it's "Earth-like" or not.


So, what's "Earth-like"?


First of all, Earth is known for it's earth and FLOWING water. The reason I'm emphasizing "flowing", is because that's typical Earth. There's no planet out there that has this quality in the same shape, that we know or have discovered. Water in of itself is not really exclusively to Earth. Water can be found inside of the Moon, if I'm not mistaken (lunar water), but it's not flowing (it's in crystals, etc.). That's the first thing. Second thing is the obvious: earth. For a planet to be called "Earth-like", it's got to have earth, at LEAST. I mean it's in the name... Whether that earth can be used to harvest life or not, is not relevant. There are many types of earth on our planet alone that are not suitable for life itself, you see. These two points HAVE TO BE present on an Earth-like planet. So far, only those 7 planets have both of these two characteristics.


THAT was the point.

And also, yes, life on Earth is a well-known fact. But... like I said, life is not exclusively assigned to Earth. Paradise has life aswell, and there could be planets out there, not looking like Earth, still being inhabitable by certain creatures.

And by the way, there could still be life on those 7 planets. I'm just saying whether there is or isn't; doesn't matter. Point made.


And what happens when the next 300 planets are found? Well, I don't know what "planets" alone have to do with this? This whole topic is about planets being EARTH-LIKE, not about there being 7 planets beside Earth...! Mars is planet, so is Mercury, Venus, Uranus, etc. Those aren't Earth-like. No, not Mars, because there's no proof for FLOWING water, or at least, not that I know of. Not every planet is Earth-like. So I don't get why you're asking about what happens when the next 300 planets are found... Those 300 planets could be un-Earth-like, so what's the point?


And also, like I said, it could be that that verse means something else entirely. Like maybe 7 other Earths where creatures are being tested, or maybe something else, MAYBE... Many possibilities can be imagined. I just wanted to share this one thing, because I don't think it's a coincidence, but then again, I'm a human being that's limited in knowledge.

And that goes for you aswell.


errrrrrr.....

I say again;

They have discovered 7 planets that are good candidates for life similar to here on earth. That is the right distance from their star and the right sort of size.

They have not discovered if they have flowing water on them.

If and when they doscover many many more such planets with conditions that make them sort of earth like a bit what happens to this idea?

We do know of large bodies of liquid water within the solar system outside the earth. Europa has a vast ocean beneath it's ice surface. For example.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote schmikbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 2017 at 6:33pm
talk about forcing a square peg into a round hole
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