Interesting Statement by Annie2

Mishmish,

I think that everyone has to make a choice in their religion and you and I have made ours.

I know an ex-Muslim who sounds just like you.  She had so many questions about Islam and the answers never made sense to her so she left.  It was not about the freedom of doing what she couldn't as a Muslim.  She just didn't believe it.  And that sounds like you.  Some of the questions you ask of Christians here make it sound like you had very poor teachers.  True or not, that is my impression.

Christians are not supposed to have sex before marriage either, although some do.  Muslims are not supposed to drink or have sex outside of marriage but many of them do.  Muslims are not supposed to have affairs, but some do.   I understand that statistically Muslim men commit more rapes in Europe than others do.  They are not supposed to, but they do.

Also statistically Islam is not the fastest growing religion in the West by conversion.  You will find that Islam grows in the West by birth rate and immigration.  More women in the West convert to Islam because they have married a Muslim and want to please their husbands by converting.

What insight do I have?  Probably no more than anyone else who has studied Islam vs. Christianity/Muhammad vs. Jesus and rejected Islam.  I like Jesus' message, the one of peace.  I like the fact that he wanted his Gospel preached without the aid of a sword.  We have a choice, but the choice is not forced on us.  In Christianity's history people fell away from the teachings of Jesus and committed atrocities, but they went against the teachings of Jesus.  In the early days of Islam there was a choice too, convert, or pay the tax, or die.

I have read too many stories of Muslims who have left Islam who were murdered by other Muslims or their own families.  At least this did not happen to you when you left Christianity.

Anyway, good luck to you.

Annie



Edited by AnnieTwo

Aquinian:

Most Muslims feel exactly the same way. After studying Islam and finding the simplicity and truthfulness of the message, who would choose otherwise?

Annie:

It is not that I had bad teachers, but rather that they were teaching impossible doctrine. You cannot logically teach something that has no logic.

I assume you consider yourself a good teacher, yet you cannot explain the Trinity or how Jesus is God. Not REALLY explain it. It just is. Why is it? Why would God go to all of the trouble of sending Messengers and Prophets for thousands of years, then show up on earth in person and keep it a big secret? Just because?

I have already posted an article by a Christian talking about the very real dangers of the numbers of older Western Christians reverting to Isam, and the reason why they revert. I can post it again if you like. Marriage had nothing to do with it. Logic and lack of blind superstition within Islam were the main reasons. You can believe this is not true if you choose, but that doesn't make it not true. Perhaps they all have had poor teachers?

You made a claim that most rapes in Europe are by Muslim men. I would like to see those statistics, because that is a very serious claim.

I have lived all over, been a Christian, now I am a Muslim for 10 years, and in all of this time and travel I have only ever met one true ex-Muslim. It is amazing to me that you apparently have met hoardes of them. Maybe they are hidden away with all of that secret material Muslims are not allowed to study.

Mishmish wrote: It is not that I had bad teachers, but rather that they were teaching impossible doctrine. You cannot logically teach something that has no logic.

I don't find the doctrine of the Trinity, if that is what you are referring to, illogical.  I find that God and what He has done completely beyond my understanding, yet I believe.  Like, for instance, how did He make the Universe?  It is illogical to think that He could just do it by saying the words.  I can't do that.  I can't make a chair by saying "be" and it is.  I don't expect to understand God and what He does and how He does it fully.  There are some things that are mysteries.

Mishmish wrote: I assume you consider yourself a good teacher, yet you cannot explain the Trinity or how Jesus is God. Not REALLY explain it. It just is. Why is it? Why would God go to all of the trouble of sending Messengers and Prophets for thousands of years, then show up on earth in person and keep it a big secret? Just because?

No, not "just because."  The problem is that sending the prophets didn't work and the law didn't work. 

Malachi 1. Behold I send My angel, and he will clear a way before Me. And suddenly, the Lord Whom you seek will come to His Temple. And behold! The angel of the covenant, whom you desire, is coming, says the Lord of Hosts.

I believe that this is the story involving Zechariah and the child that God promised him who was John the Baptist.  John was the messenger who would prepare the way for the Promised One, Messiah Jesus, who was God Himself incarnate.

There are some who call themselves Christians who do not believe that Jesus was divine and do not believe in the Trinity, yet they believe that Jesus was the Messiah.  Apparently Muslims reject this and claim that Jesus was "just" another anointed one.

I can easily see that Jesus called God his Father, so we have the Father.  Jesus claimed to be the Messiah, the son of God (a title of the Messiah).  I can also plainly see that Jesus spoke of the Holy Spirit of God.  That is enough for me.  I don't have to know how it all works.

I don't know how electricity works either but I believe it.

Mishmish wrote: I have already posted an article by a Christian talking about the very real dangers of the numbers of older Western Christians reverting to Isam, and the reason why they revert. I can post it again if you like. Marriage had nothing to do with it. Logic and lack of blind superstition within Islam were the main reasons. You can believe this is not true if you choose, but that doesn't make it not true. Perhaps they all have had poor teachers?

No, I haven't had poor teachers.

Mishmish wrote: You made a claim that most rapes in Europe are by Muslim men. I would like to see those statistics, because that is a very serious claim.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=2150 2

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=2053 5

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/08/rape-nothing-to-do-with -islam.html

You can do your own googles.  Rape is a problem in all societies.  I understand from a recent article that in the US rapes have gone down since 1970.

Mishmish wrote: I have lived all over, been a Christian, now I am a Muslim for 10 years, and in all of this time and travel I have only ever met one true ex-Muslim. It is amazing to me that you apparently have met hoardes of them. Maybe they are hidden away with all of that secret material Muslims are not allowed to study.

<>You can do your own google: Muslims leaving Islam. 

<>I don't know what a "true ex-Muslim" or a "true ex-Christian" is. 

Annie

Mishmish wrote: Annie: Yes, I read the stats, apparently despite the huge climb in "Muslim" rape, it's still about 3% of all rapes commited in Europe. Who is commiting the other 97%?  I know, it wouldn't be Christians because TRUE Christians don't commit crimes.

Try not to be sarcastic, Mishmish.  Of course Christians commit rapes.  Look again at the reasons for the Muslim rapes.  Rape is a crime, not of lust, but of violence and disrespect of women.

Mishmish wrote: The trinity is not the same as the creation of the earth. The trinity is associating partners with God, no matter how you try to gloss it over. God is One. That is the whole basis of monotheism. One God, not three.

Three what?  The Shema simply means that there is only one God.  The Shema says nothing about the nature of that one God.  Look at the Old Testament.  How many times do you see that there is only one God?  Many times.  If God wanted to make sure that His nature was not a tri-unity, you would see Him stating it over and over again, but you cannot find it--not in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Don't the Muslims associate "partners" with God when Muslims have to believe not only in God, but also in Muhammad?  What about the rest of us?  What about the Jews?  What about the Christians who are not trinitarians?

I have been told by Muslims that no religion but Islam, the religion of Muhammad, will be accepted by Allah.  How can this be?

You do not understand the Trinity or you would not say that it involves "partners" with God.  Is does not.

Once again, Jesus spoke of the Father, he said that he was the Son/Messiah and he spoke of the Holy Spirit which is the Comforter in the Gospel of John.

Jesus never spoke of a prophet who would come after him and he would have if that was the case.

Jesus is our last chance.

Annie