A question to all my Christian friends |
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Patty
Senior Member Joined: 14 September 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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I love these words of St. Paul. It sums up the need for great faith, especially in times like these when we can't find the exact answer we would love to have: "Last of all, as to one untimely born, he [Jesus] appeared also to me. / For I am the least of the apostles, unfit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. / But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me has not been in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them--though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me." (1 Cor 15:8-10)" Here is the Pauline Chronology if anyone is interested: by Felix Just, S.J., Ph.D.
People usually talk about "Paul's Three Missionary Journeys" (each beginning/ending in Antioch), followed by "Paul's Voyage to Rome"
For some online maps of this traditional understanding of the three "journeys", see the Good News Christian Ministries, or the Maps Related to the Life of Paul by Nancy Carter; see also the larger list of Ancient World Maps by Dr. Mark Goodacre. Problems with this schema:
A Better, More Comprehensive Overview: "Five Main Phases of Paul's Life" The following chronology is based on a combination of evidence from Paul's own letters and from the Acts of the Apostles, since neither gives us a complete picture, and there are some points of tension between them. (See the maps in the back of any good Study Bible; see also my New Testament Geography page for more background on the Roman PROVINCES and Capital Cities).
Compare this chronology also with that of Pheme Perkins (Reading the NT, 139), and/or with William Baird's article on "Paul" (HCBD, 814-22). Paul's Conversion/Revelation on the Road to Damascus Paul's Own Words: "For I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel that was proclaimed by me is not of human origin; / for I did not receive it from a human source, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. / You have heard, no doubt, of my earlier life in Judaism. I was violently persecuting the church of God and was trying to destroy it. / I advanced in Judaism beyond many among my people of the same age, for I was far more zealous for the traditions of my ancestors. / But when God, who had set me apart before I was born and called me through his grace, was pleased / to reveal his Son to me, so that I might proclaim him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with any human being, / nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were already apostles before me, but I went away at once into Arabia, and afterwards I returned to Damascus. / Then after three years I did go up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and stayed with him fifteen days; / but I did not see any other apostle except James the Lord's brother." (Gal 1:11-19) "Last of all, as to one untimely born, he [Jesus] appeared also to me. / For I am the least of the apostles, unfit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. / But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me has not been in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them--though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me." (1 Cor 15:8-10) "This is the reason that I Paul am a prisoner for Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles--/ for surely you have already heard of the commission of God's grace that was given me for you, / and how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I wrote above in a few words." (Eph 3:1-3, probably deutero-Pauline) It is necessary to boast; nothing is to be gained by it, but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. / I know a person in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows. / And I know that such a person--whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows-- / was caught up into Paradise and heard things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat." (2Cor 12:1-4, probably referring to himself, but maybe to a different later "revelation") The Three Accounts in Acts:
http://catholic-resources.org/Bible/Pauline_Chronology.htm As you can see, BMZ, in Acts 9:7 there WERE witnesses to Paul's conversion. God's Peace and Understanding. Edited by Patty |
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Patty
I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Patty, From you: "I think you need to sit down and re-read the four Gospels, BMZ. Jesus did speak about the same salvation as Paul reinforced in the verses of his many books. Jesus also spoke very specifically about sins, particular sins.....ALL sins. Any act which breaks a commandment is a grave sin, and that covers all sins. Jesus did mention these of course." Patty, every prophet spoke about sins. I was referring to the "sin theory" which says Jesus paid with his life for our sins, propagated by Paul and the salvation as Paul saw it based on the death of Jesus on cross. Paul made it very easy for the Gentiles and all they had to do was to believe in salvation by just believing in Jesus only and bypassing everythingelse and God Almighty. BMZ |
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AnnieTwo
Senior Member Joined: 26 May 2006 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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BMZ, Compare: Matthew 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.� With Isaiah 53. 11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors. This is not about Paul; it is about the prophecy of the Messiah Jesus.
Easy? You don't know much about what the New Testament teaches and what Jesus taught, do you? |
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14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4
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Patty
Senior Member Joined: 14 September 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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Hi BMZ! You said the following: "I was referring to the "sin theory" which says Jesus paid with his life for our sins, propagated by Paul and the salvation as Paul saw it based on the death of Jesus on cross." These are Jesus' own words regarding his upcoming death on the cross, and the reason(s) for it: The Savior speaks as follows: I lay down my life for the sheep, and I know them (John 10:15, 27) My command is this: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends (John 15:12-13). Matthew 26:27-28 Then He took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. [28] This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. God's Peace! |
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Patty
I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
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Servetus
Senior Member Male Joined: 04 April 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2109 |
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Frater BMZ (you are quoted below),
They are; it is; and he had. Unless, that is, the New Testament writings are just a sort of rather complex (a-hem) �vaticinium ex eventu,� as many a Rationalist, failed seminarian and occasional Muslim has argued. Standby, here's a little smiley face: At any rate, the author of
Of course, neither did the Ethiopian eunuch until the Spirit directed St. Philip to him (Acts 8:27-39) to show otherwise.
I will say that these two verses come immediately to mind as distinct possibilities. Please be forewarned, though, that I might be unduly influenced by having recently (Christmas Day) listened to the complete version of Handel�s 'Messiah':) �The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. (Isaiah 9:2)� �I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; (Isaiah 42:6)� I would suggest that Best regards, Serv Edited by Servetus |
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AnnieTwo
Senior Member Joined: 26 May 2006 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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I think it is obvious that BMZ has either not read the New Testment or has read it and has not understood it. The other alternative is that he cannot accept what it says and still remain a Muslim. In my opinion he is embarrassed that Jesus appointed Paul (may peace be upon his name) one of His apostles and Jesus did not appoint Muhammad an Apostle or any prophet to come after Jesus. The truth be known no prophet was to come after Jesus. The Advocate is the Holy Spirit of God. There was no need for another prophet to come after Jesus. We, as Christians, can only hope that BMZ and other Muslims will read the New Testament and the Gospel of Jesus with complete understanding and if they do they will know the truth. We must pray for BMZ and the Muslims. |
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14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4
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Servetus
Senior Member Male Joined: 04 April 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2109 |
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With all due respect, it seems to me that there are other logical possibilities, Annie, and, though you weren�t talking in this case to me, I think it best if we not pigeon-hole BMZ or anyone else for that matter. There are, at any rate, different degrees of �understanding� of the New Testament, a fact proved well enough by the mountain of written Commentaries which purport to explain, or at least to explicate it.
In my opinion, this is nonsense and is little more than a side-swipe at BMZ. You should be embarrassed for having posted it .
Please do consider telling that to Brother R. G. Stair, my favorite short-wave radio evangelist. Serv Edited by Servetus |
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Patty
Senior Member Joined: 14 September 2001 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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Annie said: "We must pray for BMZ and the Muslims." We must pray for everyone, "unceasingly", as Christ commanded us. Catholics are a "different" sort. The following is what we believe regarding non-Christians: The fate of non-Catholics, as expressed at Vatican II:
I love your posts, Annie! Very interesting and accurate. God's Peace! |
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Patty
I don't know what the future holds....but I know who holds the future. |
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