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Contrasting Qur'an and Ahadith of Muhammad. - Event Date: 17 November 2012

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Matt Browne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Browne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2012 at 2:16am
Civilizations who don't care what others think are doomed.

What do you mean exactly by 'will not be tolerated' ?

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Loren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2012 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by Matt Browne Matt Browne wrote:

When observing the dialog here, an article from Mirza B. comes to mind. She is a Muslim from India:

"... We Muslims are a people who are the least self critical of all mankind. We love fooling ourselves. We teach our own history in a way that makes us look good and so effectively prevents us from learning anything useful that we can apply today. ... In almost every Muslim religious discourse worldwide, we hear innumerable stories of heroic military leadership of our illustrious predecessors in the remote past. But I ask myself, how many examples do we hear of educators who established universities? Of business leaders who built economies and industries? Of scientists who gave the world new inventions and discoveries? Of rulers who created models of administration and governance that can be emulated today? ... The first sign of a desire to change is to accept that we have a problem. And that we are its authors. The empowering thing about owning the problem is that you also then own the solution. When we export blame as we are habituated to do, we also export the solution and so the problem remains with us and continues to trouble us. We must accept that we are the cause of our internal differences and strife. If we want to build mutual understanding, nothing and nobody can change that. People can try and they will try but they will never succeed if we don't let them. The coming together of the two Germanys and of the two Vietnams are classic examples. You will be astonished to learn about a recently published book on Christian denominations, each with its own church, theological concept, literature, services and priests. The author counted a total of 33,000. Yes, I have not put too many zeros. There are actually 33,000 Christian denominations. But have you ever seen one denomination bombing another's church? Have you seen the followers of one denomination suicide bombing the followers of another denomination? Have you heard any statement from the Pope calling the Church of England infidel? Occasionally you might hear statements like my church is better than yours. Have you heard a statement from the Presbyterians or the Lutherans or anyone else calling the Catholics infidels?"

Muslims who have different interpretations of Islam should treat each other with respect. Only then can they learn to treat followers of other religions with respect which is the basic for peace on Earth.

 
First of all who cares what Mirza B thinks? Google the golden age of Islam what the Muslims brought to the Western civilisation.
 
Secondly, deviants within Islam will not be tolerated, and there are so many of these unfortunately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Browne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 November 2012 at 11:24pm
When observing the dialog here, an article from Mirza B. comes to mind. She is a Muslim from India:

"... We Muslims are a people who are the least self critical of all mankind. We love fooling ourselves. We teach our own history in a way that makes us look good and so effectively prevents us from learning anything useful that we can apply today. ... In almost every Muslim religious discourse worldwide, we hear innumerable stories of heroic military leadership of our illustrious predecessors in the remote past. But I ask myself, how many examples do we hear of educators who established universities? Of business leaders who built economies and industries? Of scientists who gave the world new inventions and discoveries? Of rulers who created models of administration and governance that can be emulated today? ... The first sign of a desire to change is to accept that we have a problem. And that we are its authors. The empowering thing about owning the problem is that you also then own the solution. When we export blame as we are habituated to do, we also export the solution and so the problem remains with us and continues to trouble us. We must accept that we are the cause of our internal differences and strife. If we want to build mutual understanding, nothing and nobody can change that. People can try and they will try but they will never succeed if we don't let them. The coming together of the two Germanys and of the two Vietnams are classic examples. You will be astonished to learn about a recently published book on Christian denominations, each with its own church, theological concept, literature, services and priests. The author counted a total of 33,000. Yes, I have not put too many zeros. There are actually 33,000 Christian denominations. But have you ever seen one denomination bombing another's church? Have you seen the followers of one denomination suicide bombing the followers of another denomination? Have you heard any statement from the Pope calling the Church of England infidel? Occasionally you might hear statements like my church is better than yours. Have you heard a statement from the Presbyterians or the Lutherans or anyone else calling the Catholics infidels?"

Muslims who have different interpretations of Islam should treat each other with respect. Only then can they learn to treat followers of other religions with respect which is the basic for peace on Earth.

A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Friendship Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2012 at 1:38pm
Assalamu alaika Honeto.

I must admit that I find it difficult to explain myself because of the nature of Arabic language. It is difficult to translate. If you try to explain it becomes monotonous to some.  Nonetheless, I will not be held responsible for misguiding any one.
First of all, recall the encounter of the holy apostle with angel Gabriel. This is explained by him in his hadith: seeking knowledge is obligatory on all believers, even if he were to go to China. No one is exempted therefore. Individuals have their own motives and intentions.
There are guidelines set up from the time of Umar ibn Khattab that was consolidated in the 1st century of Hijra on the one to give a Fatwa. The Tabi'un for example stated that the one who does not know Asbab-al-nuzul is not allowed to explain the Qur'an. These were Arabs, yet they set that criteria because the life history of the holy apostle is described. If you take the books on the Tafsir of the Qur'an in Arabic from al-Itqan fi ulum-alqur'an to al-mubahith fi ulum-al-qur'an by for example Luayy you will see that they even demand knowing the time of revelation in winter or summer at night or day.
An American Dr. bilal Phillips in item 3 of hois conditions for translating the Qur'an said: The Mufassir must have working knowledge of classical Arabic, its grammatical constructions and its figures of speech because this is the language of the Qur'an. Any Tafseer which is based solely on a translation of some of the meanings of the Qur'an will be liable to distortion. As Mujaahid, stuident of ibn 'Abbas said, "It is not allowable for anyone who believes in Allah and the last day to explain Allah's Book if he is not knowlegeable in the Arabic language." The Mufassir should also know the other Islamic sciences which are connected in one way or another to the Quraan such as, Hadeeth and Fiqh....
For example you quote Qur'an 1:159. Its correct Tafsir includes:
1. It is an early Madinan verse probably in the third year.
2. It was revealed in relation to the stoning of an adultress. In addition to Muadth ibn Jabbal, Sa'eed ibn Muadth, Hrijah bin Zayd
3. It has a general application. For example I know that the Arafat is observed wrongly. What will happen to me if I keep silent?  Abu Loren has refused to answer my questions and probably you. Why are you concealing the truth?
4. You should know the remarks of Abu Huaraira.
5. You should know what the holy apostle told Barra'a ibn Azib during the funeral prayer.
6. The explanation given by Imam Shatibi in his book Muwafiqat: Vol. 1 pp.95-104; Vol.4 pp77-78, 125.
I hope you have understood me. I am not trying to be arrogant or over assuming. I am just trying to know the truth. I believe that I am on the Right path.
Note I always check my understanding with the meaning of the words as given in Lisan 'Arab by Ibn Manzur.
I could have been in Florida today for my book signing had it not that my visa to USA was delayed. I may visit Guadalajara in Dec. if I can get visa. I will contact you next time I am in USA probably in March.
May Allah bring you back to your family safely.
Friendship.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2012 at 12:36pm
Ameen! Have a safe trip and keep us in your dua.  Enjoy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2012 at 11:16am
Originally posted by Friendship Friendship wrote:

<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="3">Assalamu alaikum.This forum has been misguided by some of the followers of Muhammad who encourage them to read the Qur'an without specifying that reading the Qur'an is distinct from looking for Guidance. Reading the Qur'an does not qualify one to be a scholar and an educator in Islam meaning submission to Allah. To submit entails obedience. Obedience is due to Allah through Muhammad Rasulullah. Therefore knowing the Sunna that is how Muhammad lived in Madina with the Levi clan of the children of Israel and the neighboring believers in Najran who called themselves Christians is more important than reading the Qur'an. Reading the Qur'an is subjected to misinterpretation of the physical world because Muhammad Rasulullah did not explain or discuss the physical. Just yesterday, scientist said that they have discovered another galaxy whose light has taken 13.3 billion years to reach us. This discovery may be rejected in times to come. It is challenging for Muhammad did not say so. On the other hand no one will ever challenge Muhammad or find a flaw in his saying. For example he says, the lunar month is 29 or 30 days. He describe the timing of prayers. He says clearly that there will never be peace in the world the moment his commands are not obeyed. He also predicts his followers fighting one� another and all of them will be in hell fire. Above all, he says that a time will come when his followers are recognized by only calling to the prayer.If, mankind want peace and fulfillment of their desires and need, the outlet is to understand the way of life of Muhammad- his Shari'a. Ironically, some GOP intellectuals believed that mother 'Nature' played a role in the victory of Barack Obama. Then why not come to a common term with that mother 'Nature'. Is the name synonymous with Allah the G-d of Abraham?Is it then not a reality that the one loved by mother "Nature" will ever remain supreme?Friendship.


Friendship,
I see that you are either mixed up or may be it is a problem of not being able to describe one's self.
I will take each of the sentence you wrote and address it.
You wrote:
1-This forum has been misguided by some of the followers of Muhammad who encourage them to read the Qur'an without specifying that reading the Qur'an is distinct from looking for Guidance.
That statement of yours is wrong based on what the Quran itself says:
2:159 (Y. Ali) Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book,-on them shall be Allah's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse,-

Here is another verse addressing the same:
39:23 (Y. Ali) Allah has revealed (from time to time) the most beautiful Message in the form of a book, consistent with itself, (yet) repeating (its teaching in various aspects): the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of Allah's praises. Such is the guidance of Allah. He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as Allah leaves to stray, can have none to guide.

There are more, but I believe these two verses are sufficient to prove your very first statement wrong. I want to hear from you first on this one before moving to the second and beyond. I take one thing at a time, it is better that way.
I will be away for a week, as I take a road trip to Mexico and may not be able to go to the forum, so please keep in mind if you do not hear from me for a week.
I ask my brothers and sisters to please Pray to God Almighty for me and my family's safe trip, Inshallah.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 18 November 2012 at 11:20am
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Abu Loren View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Loren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2012 at 11:01am
Originally posted by Friendship Friendship wrote:

Assalamu alaika Lore.

Allah has certainly guided me. Note that He will never guide anyone who does not understand Islam in its original form. There is no doubt about this.  It is obvious that you are a 'Muqalladun' that is those who worship Allah or believe in Muhammad without understanding, proof, evidence scale and weight. You know nothing for you said that Arafat is on the 9th. It is only the Muqalladun that behave like parrots. I have been  to a lot of Arab countries including Abu Dhabi and found  a lot of immigrants from Asia. I am certain that you are not be a native of Abu Dhabi because Arabs are straight forward people.
It is you who will regret and not me. It is a disgrace for a Muslim to say that he does not know fully on the Sunna. You are implying that Muhammad came with something beyond human comprehension, while Allah claims that He has made the Sunna simple for those who want to understand. I know all that I must know to enter paradise. It is disrespect to Muhammad not to know everything on him.
Bye bye.
Friendship.

 
Not only do you cliam to know it all but you sure are arrogant with it. You haven't made one valid Islamic comment on this forum.
 
How can you say Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala has guided you when you worship the Prophet (Salallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). How many times do I have to say to you that you are a deviant?
 
I'll give you one bit of advise for free, that is to go and read the Holy Qur'an the Hadiths from the beginning and take note of what they are saying. You are an intelligent person, I believe you are a medical doctor?
 
Here is an example of the rubbish that you spew out taken from this thread.
 

"Therefore knowing the Sunna that is how Muhammad lived in Madina with the Levi clan of the children of Israel and the neighboring believers in Najran who called themselves Christians is more important than reading the Qur'an.

Reading the Qur'an is subjected to misinterpretation of the physical world because Muhammad Rasulullah did not explain or discuss the physical

Ironically, some GOP intellectuals believed that mother 'Nature' played a role in the victory of Barack Obama. Then why not come to a common term with that mother 'Nature'. Is the name synonymous with Allah the G-d of Abraham?
Is it then not a reality that the one loved by mother "Nature" will ever remain supreme?"


Edited by Abu Loren - 18 November 2012 at 11:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Friendship Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 November 2012 at 10:44am
Assalamu alaika Lore.

Allah has certainly guided me. Note that He will never guide anyone who does not understand Islam in its original form. There is no doubt about this.  It is obvious that you are a 'Muqalladun' that is those who worship Allah or believe in Muhammad without understanding, proof, evidence scale and weight. You know nothing for you said that Arafat is on the 9th. It is only the Muqalladun that behave like parrots. I have been  to a lot of Arab countries including Abu Dhabi and found  a lot of immigrants from Asia. I am certain that you are not be a native of Abu Dhabi because Arabs are straight forward people.
It is you who will regret and not me. It is a disgrace for a Muslim to say that he does not know fully on the Sunna. You are implying that Muhammad came with something beyond human comprehension, while Allah claims that He has made the Sunna simple for those who want to understand. I know all that I must know to enter paradise. It is disrespect to Muhammad not to know everything on him.
Bye bye.
Friendship.

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