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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Points: 1930 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2009 at 2:25pm
"How can torah and the gospel be corrupted by few words or sevaral texts or the entire scriptures.
Because of the  quran the muslims believe everything in torah and the gospel is false or corrupt." 
 
It really doesn't matter if there are 5 contradictions or 5 million, it is still contradictory and inconsistent.  Once men made Jesus into God who must be worshipped in order to receive salvation they corrupted the Word of God from the Bible:
 
"Thou shalt have no other gods before me"
 
"For this is what the Lord says � he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited � he says: `I am the Lord, and there is no other� "
 
"See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded, and it is I who heal; And there is no one who can deliver from My hand."
 
"I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. "
 
"You are My witnesses," declares the Lord, "And My servant whom I have chosen, In order that you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me. I, even I, am the Lord; And there is no savior besides Me."
 
From The Quran:
 
2:163 (Y. Ali) And your Allah is one Allah. There is no God but He, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
 
2:255 (Y. Ali) Allah. There is no God but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).
 
40:65 (Y. Ali) He is the Living: There is no God but He: Call upon Him, giving Him sincere devotion. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds!
 
59:23 (Y. Ali) Allah is He, than Whom there is no other God;- the Sovereign, the Holy one, the Source of Peace (and Perfection), the Guardian of Faith, the Preserver of Safety, the Exalted in Might, the Irresistible, the Supreme: Glory to Allah. (High is He) above the partners they attribute to Him.


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 19 March 2009 at 2:41pm
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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honeto View Drop Down
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Points: 2487 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 March 2009 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

Believer,
 
Yes Muslims believe that God sent Holy texts to Moses and Jesus, however these texts were corrupted. Quoting passages from The Quran stating that God sent these texts does not negate the fact that the texts were corrupted.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
How can torah and the gospel be corrupted by few words or sevaral texts or the entire scriptures.
Because of the  quran the muslims believe everything in torah and the gospel is false or corrupt. 
 
Jouberar,
things read and understood wrong can not just mislead us they can also cause our doom, we believe.
 
Muslims, as myself don't believe that everything in Torah and the Gospel is false or corrupt. We do believe for sure that it has been altered by men and that is different than what you have said.
 
We believe, that God revealed them to His messangers, and those who followed and were in charge of their keeping twisted, deleted, added, altered parts that suite their interests and understanding, while the word of God in order to be pure was never to be treated as such. As it is said in the Bible, if one corrupts a word, corrupts the whole.
 
The result was a unsure situation where the pure word of God thus did not exist, so God revealed His pure word for the guidance of those who were still living and were to come till the end so they can be judged by it, the Quran.
 
Now, for me studying the Bible was an eye opener, I could not believe the degree of inconsistancies I was finding in it. And my conclusion was a confirmation that this book, the Bible, has been corrupted by men. It contradicts many issues, but the most important three: God, Jesus, and Salvation it is full of inconsistancies, if you are not aware of them, let me know and I will guide you through them.
 
Hasan
 


Edited by honeto - 19 March 2009 at 2:07pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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JOUBERAR View Drop Down
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Points: 573 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JOUBERAR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 March 2009 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

Believer,
 
Yes Muslims believe that God sent Holy texts to Moses and Jesus, however these texts were corrupted. Quoting passages from The Quran stating that God sent these texts does not negate the fact that the texts were corrupted.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
How can torah and the gospel be corrupted by few words or sevaral texts or the entire scriptures.
Because of the  quran the muslims believe everything in torah and the gospel is false or corrupt. 
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Points: 1930 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2009 at 3:56pm
Believer,
 
Yes Muslims believe that God sent Holy texts to Moses and Jesus, however these texts were corrupted. Quoting passages from The Quran stating that God sent these texts does not negate the fact that the texts were corrupted.
 
 
 
 
 
 
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2009 at 2:23pm
Who said the Bible was translated from a translation?  The scibes of the Bible were learned men and could read and write in hebrew, greek and aramaic!  LOL!
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 March 2009 at 2:19pm

Funny you should mention 666 please read:

 

Nur - So the Quran is lying in the following verses?!?!

 
3:3

He descended on you The Book with the truth, confirming to what  between His hands, and He descended the Torah and the New Testament/Bible.

YUSUFALI: It is He Who sent down to thee, in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law and the Gospel before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion. 

PICKTHAL: He hath revealed unto thee the Scripture with truth, confirming that which was before it, even as He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.                                                                                           SHAKIR: He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.
 
003.084
Say: "We believed with God, and what descended on us, and what descended on Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the grandchildren , and what Moses and Jesus and the prophets were given/brought from their Lord, we do not separate/distinguish/differentiate between any from them, and we are for Him submitters/surrenderers."
YUSUFALI: Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will."
PICKTHAL: Say: We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
SHAKIR: Say: We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
 
5:44
That We descended the Torah/Old Testament, in it guidance and light, the prophets those who submitted/surrendered , judge/rule with it, to those who guided/Jews , and the knowledgeable Lord worshippers , and the religious scholars with what they memorized/safe kept from God's Book , and they were not on it witnessing/present ; so do not fear the people and fear Me, and do not buy/volunteer with My signs/verses a small price, and who does not judge/rule with what God descended, so those, they are the disbelievers.
YUSUFALI: It was We who revealed the law: therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed to Allah's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by what Allah hath revealed, they are Unbelievers.
PICKTHAL: Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.
SHAKIR: Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves judged for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they
 

5:46

And We sent after on their tracks with Jesus, Mary's son confirming for what  between his hands from the Torah/Old Testament, and We gave him the New Testament/Bible in it guidance and light, and confirming to what between his hands from the Torah/Old Testament, and guidance and a sermon/advice/warning to the fearing and obeying.

YUSUFALI: And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.
PICKTHAL: And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
SHAKIR: And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard.

 

5:47
And the New Testament's/Bible's people should judge/rule with what God descended in it, and who does not judge/rule with what God descended, so those, they are the debauchers .

YUSUFALI:And the New Testament's/Bible's people should judge/rule with what God descended in it, and who does not judge/rule with what God descended, so those, they are the debauchers PICKTHAL: Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.
SHAKIR: And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.

 

5:48

And We descended to you The Book with the truth , confirming to what between his hands from The Book, and guarding/protecting on it, so judge/rule between them with what God descended and do not follow their self attractions for desires about what came to you from the truth, to each from you We made/put God's decreed way of life/method/law and order , and a clear/easy/plain way , and if God wanted/willed, He would have made you one nation/generation, and but to test you in what He gave you, so race/surpass the goodnesses/generosity, to God your return altogether, so He informs you with what you were in it differing/disagreeing (P).

 

YUSUFALI: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;
PICKTHAL: And unto thee have We revealed the Scripture with the truth, confirming whatever Scripture was before it, and a watcher over it. So judge between them by that which Allah hath revealed, and follow not their desires away from the truth which hath come unto thee. For each We have appointed a divine law and a traced-out way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you (He hath made you as ye are). So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and He will then inform you of that wherein ye differ.
SHAKIR: And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;

 

5:68 

Say: "You The Book's people, you are not on a thing, until you keep up the Torah/Old Testament and the Bible/New Testament , and what was descended to you from your (P) Lord." And what was descended to you (S/M) from your Lord increases (E) many of them tyranny/arrogance, and disbelief, so do not grieve/sadden on the nation, the disbelieving.

YUSUFALI: Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over people without Faith.
PICKTHAL: Say O People of the Scripture! Ye have naught (of guidance) till ye observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto you from your Lord. That which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them. But grieve not for the disbelieving folk.
SHAKIR: Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.

 
Then We brought/gave Moses The Book complete on that best detailing/explaining to every thing, and guidance, and mercy, maybe they believe with their Lord's meeting.
YUSUFALI: Moreover, We gave Moses the Book, completing to those who would do right, and explaining all things in detail,- and a guide and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
PICKTHAL: Again, We gave the Scripture unto Moses, complete for him who would do good, an explanation of all things, a guidance and a mercy, that they might believe in the meeting with their Lord.
SHAKIR: Again, We gave the Book to Musa to complete on him who would do good (to others), and making plain all things and a guidance and a mercy, so that they should believe in the meeting of their Lord.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
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Points: 1031 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nur_Ilahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2009 at 10:05pm
So everything that is wrong as long it is writen in the quran it is true, why is Jesus birth not simular as in the bible where did Muhammad get his information from if everybody in world knows he was born in a stable.
 
If 911 is the biggest fraud in modern history, the Bible is the biggest fraud in all of history.
 
How many years had the bible been fooling Christians? more than 2000 years.
 
No wonder Christians are coming into Islam in droves.
 
Subhanallah!
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Originally posted by semar semar wrote:

Originally posted by JOUBERAR JOUBERAR wrote:

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

Believer:

Here are the correct translation of these verses. The Word was Be, and Jesus was. This is explaining how Mary, a virgin, could be with child. Allah(SWT) said Be, and Jesus was.

Messiah can be a deliverer, such as the Jews were awaiting, or a leader and teacher, but Muslims do not call Jesus a messiah. He is a Prophet and an Apostle of God.

3:45 Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.

4:171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

 The Jesus in the quran is in fact not the true Jesus as described in the bible the true Jesus was not born under a palm tree may be Muhammad did listen very good when the christians told him about Jesus he was born in a stable.
The problem is which one can be trusted more. For muslim,  quran is can not be wrong.
 
So everything that is wrong as long it is writen in the quran it is true, why is Jesus birth not simular as in the bible where did Muhammad get his information from if everybody in world knows he was born in a stable.
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