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PattyaMainer 
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 Posted: 10 December 2008 at 7:37pm |
 honeto wrote:
Patty,
its interesting that when I quoted this verse in which Jesus says : " I am returning to my God and your God" or " that father is greater than I" you change your position there by saying because Jesus was in human form. Now when the devil is talking to him, you wants us to not take Jesus as the man form, rather as God form.
And by the way, it is ridiculous to assume that the devil, created by God will try to trick and ask God " if you do this (God) I will give you this and that. That is laughable. My 3rd, 5th and 7th grader all will be laughing when I tell them this later tonight.
God is not a joke Patty. Truth is not always easy to come, yet its the only choice. And you don't have to butter it up, its that simple and flat. None of the God's prophets according to the records were diplomatic when it came to belief in one God. They were as clear and blunt as can be. They knew and were told to make things clear and warn of the consequences. There is not other way.
Only thing I showed you is the truth of the matter and the argument with proof from your trusted source.
You will be asked what and why you believed, and I will be asked the same. We will be justly dealt! word for word, act for act by the Almighty, that's how I believe.
By the way we don't need an intercessor to connect us to the Almighty. God is near to you and I than them.
Hasan |
I cannot explain the Trinity to you, Hasan. It is three separate entities, persons, who come together to form ONE God. Christians do NOT believe in multiple Gods. What really bothers me is your statement that you will have children laughing at MY beliefs and religion. I would never stoop to do such a thing to any child. Yes, God is very near to me. You are right on that one. As I mentioned to you previously, we follow different paths. Peace to you on your journey. I spoke with two priests who told me it is impossible to explain the Trinity to Muslims for many reasons. It is a difficult concept to be sure and takes great faith. It is there in the Bible (not the word trinity, but the concept). This is my last post to you because it is futile to even attempt to explain my beliefs, but mainly because you have become somewhat rude in your posts to me, and especially because of your comments regarding disrespecting my religion to the point of having young children laugh. I would never resort to disrespecting any religion to a child. What a shame you feel that is great fun.
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"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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Mansoor_ali
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Posted: 11 December 2008 at 2:37pm |
PattyaMainer wrote:
Ali, you are once again twisting the meaning which is right in front of you. Jesus was confronted by Satan in the desert. The Devil "ATTEMPTED" to tempt Jesus. He did NOT succeed! |
Let's see who is twisting the meaning?
Satan did tempt Jesus to climb up the mountain.Here are some verses which support my claim:
"At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, and
he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild
animals, and angels attended him. (Mark 1:12-13)"
"Jesus,full of the Holy Spirit,returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, where for
forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and
at the end of them he was hungry. (Luke 4:1-2)"
Jesus SUFFERED when he was tempted by satan:
Hebrews 2
17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in
every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to
God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to
help those who are being tempted.
How is Jesus supposed to be the Creator of the Universe when he was tempted and
controlled by satan for 40 days, while James 1:13 verse says clearly that GOD Almighty can not be tempted by satan?
PattyaMainer wrote:
Jesus told him in no uncertain, or twisted words, "You shall NOT tempt the Lord your God." Of course he meant himself!! Uh, remember, that's who Satan was TRYING to tempt. |
Patty read the Matthew 4:7 in its CONTEXT.Let me present the verse in its context:
Matthew 4:5-7
5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, 6And
saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is
written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their
hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot
against a stone. 7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So said Jesus when satan urged him to cast himself down from the pinnacle of the Temple because God's angels would hold him up according to a promise of God.We are not to put God to the test.(Source)
PattyaMainer wrote:
Jesus "stuck to his guns" and rebuffed the devil each time he tried another tactic, such as offering him great wealth, kingdoms, etc. Jesus was God, the devil is smart, not st**id, and he knew exactly who he was dealing with here, and it was not a messanger or a prophet....it was God Himself. That is why Jesus kept telling Satan to "get thee behind me." What on earth do you mean, "he (the devil) wouldn't dare try to tempt God?" Of course he would....that's his whole plan for all eternity.
Read my original post, carefully Ali:
"
PattyaMainer wrote:
The question asked by the devil in verse 3 is rhetorical He knew that Jesus was God and he was not questioning if He was God. Rather, he was testing Him AS God! �If thou be the Son of God...� then do this, or that to prove it (knowing that if Jesus did what he asked, then He would have lost His authority). The term �Son of God� means far more than just �son�, because the Son IS God. |
"
As you can see, the Devil was not questioning IF he was God, he already knew he was God....he was trying to cause Jesus to do his bidding because IF Jesus did, he would have lost his power. Jesus, of course, being God in the 2nd person, did NOT fall for it responded in two ways, by telling him not to tempt HIM/GOD, and to "get lost." That is exactly what these verses of the Bible state....very clearly and specifically.
Patty |
let us read the verses of Satan tempting Jesus. Let us read from Matthew 4 verse
8 to 10:
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into
an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory
of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down
and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written,
Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve
Now very
interesting points to read from those verses, for one, Satan tried to tempt Jesus to
worship him! Satan tells Jesus he will give him everything, if Jesus bows down and
worships him, Jesus of course denies him, and is not tempted and tells Satan it is written
that thou shalt worship the lord thy God.
Main points
to look over, which I find outrageous and a blasphemy:
1- Satan
tries to tempt Jesus by giving him the kingdoms of the world, meaning giving him power and
authority.
2- Satan
tells Jesus to worship him if he wants to get the kingdoms of heaven.
Now with
those 2 points we have, we must say, if Jesus indeed was God, how could Satan even try to
command Jesus to worship him! How could Satan even have tried to offer Jesus the kingdoms
of the earth! Everything belongs to God, the whole earth belongs to God, and so does every
other planet. The whole universe belongs to God! How could Satan even try such an act if
Jesus was God? The reason why Satan tried to tempt Jesus to worship him is because Jesus
is not God. Because Satan would never ever make such a command, and secondly Satan would
never make an offer of giving Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, because he would
already know all things belong to God!
Those main 2
points prove without a shadow of a doubt that Jesus is not God, but it shows he is no more
than a prophet, because Satan would try to tempt great prophets in that way, to try and
promise them the world, if they worship him instead of God. That is the ultimate success
for Satan, to make a great prophet such as Jesus to leave God and to worship him. Also the
fact that Satan offers Jesus all the kingdoms is further proof that he is not God because
a mere man, a prophet, would always be tempted greatly if he could have all the kingdoms
of this planet.
What use
would it be to offer God all the kingdoms of the earth when he owns them all anyway! It
makes no sense.
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PattyaMainer
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Joined: 03 August 2008
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Status: Offline
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Posted: 11 December 2008 at 3:22pm |
Mansoor_ali wrote:
PattyaMainer wrote:
Ali, you are once again twisting the meaning which is right in front of you. Jesus was confronted by Satan in the desert. The Devil "ATTEMPTED" to tempt Jesus. He did NOT succeed! |
Let's see who is twisting the meaning?
Satan did tempt Jesus to climb up the mountain.Here are some verses which support my claim:
"At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, and he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him. (Mark 1:12-13)"
"Jesus,full of the Holy Spirit,returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry. (Luke 4:1-2)"
Jesus SUFFERED when he was tempted by satan:
Hebrews 2
17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
How is Jesus supposed to be the Creator of the Universe when he was tempted and controlled by satan for 40 days, while James 1:13 verse says clearly that GOD Almighty can not be tempted by satan?
PattyaMainer wrote:
Jesus told him in no uncertain, or twisted words, "You shall NOT tempt the Lord your God." Of course he meant himself!! Uh, remember, that's who Satan was TRYING to tempt. |
Patty read the Matthew 4:7 in its CONTEXT.Let me present the verse in its context:
Matthew 4:5-7
5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So said Jesus when satan urged him to cast himself down from the pinnacle of the Temple because God's angels would hold him up according to a promise of God.We are not to put God to the test.(Source)
PattyaMainer wrote:
Jesus "stuck to his guns" and rebuffed the devil each time he tried another tactic, such as offering him great wealth, kingdoms, etc. Jesus was God, the devil is smart, not st**id, and he knew exactly who he was dealing with here, and it was not a messanger or a prophet....it was God Himself. That is why Jesus kept telling Satan to "get thee behind me." What on earth do you mean, "he (the devil) wouldn't dare try to tempt God?" Of course he would....that's his whole plan for all eternity.
Read my original post, carefully Ali:
"
PattyaMainer wrote:
The question asked by the devil in verse 3 is rhetorical He knew that Jesus was God and he was not questioning if He was God. Rather, he was testing Him AS God! �If thou be the Son of God...� then do this, or that to prove it (knowing that if Jesus did what he asked, then He would have lost His authority). The term �Son of God� means far more than just �son�, because the Son IS God. |
"
As you can see, the Devil was not questioning IF he was God, he already knew he was God....he was trying to cause Jesus to do his bidding because IF Jesus did, he would have lost his power. Jesus, of course, being God in the 2nd person, did NOT fall for it responded in two ways, by telling him not to tempt HIM/GOD, and to "get lost." That is exactly what these verses of the Bible state....very clearly and specifically.
Patty |
let us read the verses of Satan tempting Jesus. Let us read from Matthew 4 verse 8 to 10:
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve
Now very interesting points to read from those verses, for one, Satan tried to tempt Jesus to worship him! Satan tells Jesus he will give him everything, if Jesus bows down and worships him, Jesus of course denies him, and is not tempted and tells Satan it is written that thou shalt worship the lord thy God.
<!--[if !supEmptyParas]--> Main points to look over, which I find outrageous and a blasphemy:
<!--[if !supEmptyParas]--> 1- Satan tries to tempt Jesus by giving him the kingdoms of the world, meaning giving him power and authority.
<!--[if !supEmptyParas]--> 2- Satan tells Jesus to worship him if he wants to get the kingdoms of heaven.
<!--[if !supEmptyParas]--> Now with those 2 points we have, we must say, if Jesus indeed was God, how could Satan even try to command Jesus to worship him! How could Satan even have tried to offer Jesus the kingdoms of the earth! Everything belongs to God, the whole earth belongs to God, and so does every other planet. The whole universe belongs to God! How could Satan even try such an act if Jesus was God? The reason why Satan tried to tempt Jesus to worship him is because Jesus is not God. Because Satan would never ever make such a command, and secondly Satan would never make an offer of giving Jesus all the kingdoms of the world, because he would already know all things belong to God!
<!--[if !supEmptyParas]--> Those main 2 points prove without a shadow of a doubt that Jesus is not God, but it shows he is no more than a prophet, because Satan would try to tempt great prophets in that way, to try and promise them the world, if they worship him instead of God. That is the ultimate success for Satan, to make a great prophet such as Jesus to leave God and to worship him. Also the fact that Satan offers Jesus all the kingdoms is further proof that he is not God because a mere man, a prophet, would always be tempted greatly if he could have all the kingdoms of this planet.
<!--[if !supEmptyParas]--> What use would it be to offer God all the kingdoms of the earth when he owns them all anyway! It makes no sense. |
Ali,
With all due respect, I will not respond to anymore "interrogations" regarding the Holy Trinity. Muslims do not believe in it....most Protestants and ALL Catholics do.
In summary to all the empty, repetitive words above......Satan ATTEMPTED to tempt Jesus because he was in his human form. Jesus was just like us in every single way, except he was without sin and he was divine in nature. It was because Jesus had assumed his human form that Satan TRIED (unsuccessfully) to bribe, cajole, tempt, and corrupt Jesus Christ the Son of God, the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity My Lord and My God...Amen!
Blessings,
Patty
Edited by PattyaMainer - 11 December 2008 at 3:24pm
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"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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honeto
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Islam
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Posted: 11 December 2008 at 4:42pm |
PattyaMainer wrote:
honeto wrote:
Patty,
its interesting that when I quoted this verse in which Jesus says : " I am returning to my God and your God" or " that father is greater than I" you change your position there by saying because Jesus was in human form. Now when the devil is talking to him, you wants us to not take Jesus as the man form, rather as God form.
And by the way, it is ridiculous to assume that the devil, created by God will try to trick and ask God " if you do this (God) I will give you this and that. That is laughable. My 3rd, 5th and 7th grader all will be laughing when I tell them this later tonight.
God is not a joke Patty. Truth is not always easy to come, yet its the only choice. And you don't have to butter it up, its that simple and flat. None of the God's prophets according to the records were diplomatic when it came to belief in one God. They were as clear and blunt as can be. They knew and were told to make things clear and warn of the consequences. There is not other way.
Only thing I showed you is the truth of the matter and the argument with proof from your trusted source.
You will be asked what and why you believed, and I will be asked the same. We will be justly dealt! word for word, act for act by the Almighty, that's how I believe.
By the way we don't need an intercessor to connect us to the Almighty. God is near to you and I than them.
Hasan |
I cannot explain the Trinity to you, Hasan. It is three separate entities, persons, who come together to form ONE God. Christians do NOT believe in multiple Gods. What really bothers me is your statement that you will have children laughing at MY beliefs and religion. I would never stoop to do such a thing to any child. Yes, God is very near to me. You are right on that one. As I mentioned to you previously, we follow different paths. Peace to you on your journey. I spoke with two priests who told me it is impossible to explain the Trinity to Muslims for many reasons. It is a difficult concept to be sure and takes great faith. It is there in the Bible (not the word trinity, but the concept). This is my last post to you because it is futile to even attempt to explain my beliefs, but mainly because you have become somewhat rude in your posts to me, and especially because of your comments regarding disrespecting my religion to the point of having young children laugh. I would never resort to disrespecting any religion to a child. What a shame you feel that is great fun.
|
Patty,
I am sorry that it bothered you what I have said. And let me tell you, my kids 7,9, and almost 12 are very respective to all regardless. They are also very advanced kids in term of learning. These are kids that start reading at age 3 1/2- 4. They are homeschooled. My 7 year old is a 3rd grader. They know about major world beliefs since they were 3-4 years old. Apart from what they believe, they can tell you what a Hindu worships, a Catholic, a Christian or a Jew. And they also know what and who is God. They also know its not a joke talking about God.
As I went home that day. Before our Isha Salath, which we do together I told them that today I have a question for them and I asked them this question: "According to a Catholic lady, a friend of mine, the Devil, a creation of God, is offering to God, great rewards for serving and worshipping him, how does that sounds to you?"
You know they did not laugh, and I am sorry if said they would, very seriously and without blinking they said, "that's silly" my oldest one further added that God has command over all, including the Devil who depends on God. How can he dare to do that, its silly, she said seriously.
So true, devil can never dare to trick, or lower God into some reward for serving him. God serving devil, the one created by God, no my dear you are gravely mistaken and anyone who says so.
Now if you say that Devil tried to lower Moses or Jesus or any of God's prophets and offer some reward for that, I can understand that and it would not be untrue. Many of us fight with the devil on a second to second basis thes days due to abundance of his council.
But regardless of being in any religious context, it is obsurd to claim that a creation will try to offer something, trick and overcome its creator. And we are talking about 'The CREATOR.'
Wish you the Best.
Hasan
Edited by honeto - 11 December 2008 at 4:44pm
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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PattyaMainer
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Posted: 11 December 2008 at 6:02pm |
honeto wrote:
PattyaMainer wrote:
honeto wrote:
Patty,
its interesting that when I quoted this verse in which Jesus says : " I am returning to my God and your God" or " that father is greater than I" you change your position there by saying because Jesus was in human form. Now when the devil is talking to him, you wants us to not take Jesus as the man form, rather as God form.
And by the way, it is ridiculous to assume that the devil, created by God will try to trick and ask God " if you do this (God) I will give you this and that. That is laughable. My 3rd, 5th and 7th grader all will be laughing when I tell them this later tonight.
God is not a joke Patty. Truth is not always easy to come, yet its the only choice. And you don't have to butter it up, its that simple and flat. None of the God's prophets according to the records were diplomatic when it came to belief in one God. They were as clear and blunt as can be. They knew and were told to make things clear and warn of the consequences. There is not other way.
Only thing I showed you is the truth of the matter and the argument with proof from your trusted source.
You will be asked what and why you believed, and I will be asked the same. We will be justly dealt! word for word, act for act by the Almighty, that's how I believe.
By the way we don't need an intercessor to connect us to the Almighty. God is near to you and I than them.
Hasan |
I cannot explain the Trinity to you, Hasan. It is three separate entities, persons, who come together to form ONE God. Christians do NOT believe in multiple Gods. What really bothers me is your statement that you will have children laughing at MY beliefs and religion. I would never stoop to do such a thing to any child. Yes, God is very near to me. You are right on that one. As I mentioned to you previously, we follow different paths. Peace to you on your journey. I spoke with two priests who told me it is impossible to explain the Trinity to Muslims for many reasons. It is a difficult concept to be sure and takes great faith. It is there in the Bible (not the word trinity, but the concept). This is my last post to you because it is futile to even attempt to explain my beliefs, but mainly because you have become somewhat rude in your posts to me, and especially because of your comments regarding disrespecting my religion to the point of having young children laugh. I would never resort to disrespecting any religion to a child. What a shame you feel that is great fun.
|
Patty,
I am sorry that it bothered you what I have said. And let me tell you, my kids 7,9, and almost 12 are very respective to all regardless. They are also very advanced kids in term of learning. These are kids that start reading at age 3 1/2- 4. They are homeschooled. My 7 year old is a 3rd grader. They know about major world beliefs since they were 3-4 years old. Apart from what they believe, they can tell you what a Hindu worships, a Catholic, a Christian or a Jew. And they also know what and who is God. They also know its not a joke talking about God.
As I went home that day. Before our Isha Salath, which we do together I told them that today I have a question for them and I asked them this question: "According to a Catholic lady, a friend of mine, the Devil, a creation of God, is offering to God, great rewards for serving and worshipping him, how does that sounds to you?"
You know they did not laugh, and I am sorry if said they would, very seriously and without blinking they said, "that's silly" my oldest one further added that God has command over all, including the Devil who depends on God. How can he dare to do that, its silly, she said seriously.
So true, devil can never dare to trick, or lower God into some reward for serving him. God serving devil, the one created by God, no my dear you are gravely mistaken and anyone who says so.
Now if you say that Devil tried to lower Moses or Jesus or any of God's prophets and offer some reward for that, I can understand that and it would not be untrue. Many of us fight with the devil on a second to second basis thes days due to abundance of his council.
But regardless of being in any religious context, it is obsurd to claim that a creation will try to offer something, trick and overcome its creator. And we are talking about 'The CREATOR.'
Wish you the Best.
Hasan |
Every Muslim knows from childhood that Christians believe in three Gods. He is constantly warned about committing this "sin of sins". The fact that there is a Father, Son and Holy Spirit sounds like blasphemy to a Muslim and is synonymous with breaking the first commandment: "You shall not have any other gods before me." Anyone who confesses that there are one or two god-like persons beside Allah commits an unforgivable sin. This coincides with the sin against the Holy Spirit (Sura al-Nisa 4:48 and 116).
A Muslim does not know the reality of the triune God, nor does he want to know it. He rejects it decidedly. A Muslim feels repelled when Christians try to explain the Trinity to him. "Three cannot be one, and one is not three," is their stereotyped answer. Allah in Islam does not need a helper, mediator or partner. He alone is great. No one is like Him.
A divine triumvirate could, in the eyes of a Muslim, bring the possibility of an insurrection of one God against the other. Jealousy, ambition, hate and criticism would be unavoidable. At the head of a Muslim country there is usually just one ruler. Rivals are executed. In the same way Allah can only be one.
The mystery that our God is love remains hidden to Muslims. The Father loved the Son before all time. He is not an egoist who only loves Himself. Through Him, the "Word," He created the universe. After Jesus' substitutionary death of reconciliation, the Father bestowed all power in heaven and on earth into the hands of the risen conqueror. The Holy Spirit today is completing the work of the Son in His church. Muslims see none of this. They also do not understand that the Holy Spirit never glorifies Himself, but the Son, and the Son continually honours the Father, who has set the Victor over sin, death and hell at His right hand. Such spiritual relationships in the Holy Trinity are completely foreign to a Muslim. He does not want to understand the words of Jesus: "I and the Father are one", or "the Father is in Me and I in Him." Love, humility and self-denial, in Islam, do not emerge as roots of every spiritual authority. Allah is different. He is the only one exalted from beginning to end, solitary and unreachable.
According to Islamic faith, Allah is the unquestioned ruler and despot who reigns arbitrarily. No one knows why he leads some to paradise, or why hell is the destiny of others. A Muslim prostrates himself on the ground before Allah like a slave before his master, who does not know whether he will be apportioned life or death, grace or damnation. He longs for mercy and his honest intent to worship the only true God earnestly brings no assurance of everlasting life.
God's Peace Always,
Patty
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"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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Mansoor_ali
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Posted: 13 December 2008 at 12:24pm |
PattyaMainer wrote:
Ali,
With all due respect, I will not respond to anymore "interrogations" regarding the Holy Trinity. Muslims do not believe in it....most Protestants and ALL Catholics do.
In summary to all the empty, repetitive words above......Satan ATTEMPTED to tempt Jesus |
Your claim contradicts with Mark 1:12-13,Luke 4:1-2,Hebrew 217-18.
PattyaMainer wrote:
because he was in his human form. Jesus was just like us in every single way, except he was without sinand he was divine in nature. |
Can you bring me the verse where Jesus claims to have dual natures i.e. fully man and fully God?
PattyaMainer wrote:
It was because Jesus had assumed his human form that Satan TRIED (unsuccessfully) to bribe, cajole, tempt, and corrupt Jesus Christ the Son of God, the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity My Lord and My God...Amen!
Blessings,
Patty |
You should backup your claims with the help of Biblical verses.
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PattyaMainer
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Posted: 13 December 2008 at 1:44pm |
Mansoor_ali wrote:
PattyaMainer wrote:
Ali,
With all due respect, I will not respond to anymore "interrogations" regarding the Holy Trinity. Muslims do not believe in it....most Protestants and ALL Catholics do.
In summary to all the empty, repetitive words above......Satan ATTEMPTED to tempt Jesus |
Your claim contradicts with Mark 1:12-13,Luke 4:1-2,Hebrew 217-18.
No, Ali, my claim does not contradict those verses. Satan attempted to cause Jesus to follow him, or to fall from grace, but he (Obviously) did not succeed.
PattyaMainer wrote:
because he was in his human form. Jesus was just like us in every single way, except he was without sinand he was divine in nature. |
Can you bring me the verse where Jesus claims to have dual natures i.e. fully man and fully God?
Yes, but you'll more than likely refuse to believe it, or twist it in some manner. Here it is:
John 1:1-18 (New King James Version)
John 1
The Eternal Word 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
John�s Witness: The True Light
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.[b]
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own,[c] and His own[d] did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, �This was He of whom I said, �He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.��
16 And[e] of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[f] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
PattyaMainer wrote:
It was because Jesus had assumed his human form that Satan TRIED (unsuccessfully) to bribe, cajole, tempt, and corrupt Jesus Christ the Son of God, the 2nd person of the Holy Trinity My Lord and My God...Amen!
Blessings,
Patty |
You should backup your claims with the help of Biblical verses. |
I just did, as I have since the beginning of this topic.
Patty
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"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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Mansoor_ali
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Joined: 25 September 2008
Location: Pakistan
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Posted: 14 December 2008 at 10:00am |
PattyaMainer wrote:
No, Ali, my claim does not contradict those verses. Satan attempted to cause Jesus to follow him, or to fall from grace, but he (Obviously) did not succeed. |
From where you get the idea that satan actually 'attempted'
to temp Jesus?You should backup your claim with the help of Biblical verses.
Further no where in Bible the word 'attempted' is written.It is your own
insertion.
Can you show me a single verse which says that "Satan attempted to
tempt Jesus..."
And suppose you are succeeded to show me a verse then it contradicts
with Mark 1:12-13,Luke 4:1-2,Hebrew 2:17-18
It is another case you donot admit it.
PattyaMainer wrote:
Yes, but you'll more than likely refuse to believe it, or twist it in some manner. Here it is:
John 1:1-18 (New King James Version)
John 1
The Eternal Word 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.
John�s Witness: The True Light
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.[b]
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own,[c] and His own[d] did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, �This was He of whom I said, �He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.��
16 And[e] of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[f] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. |
I think you didnot understand what i am asking from you.I
said '...Can you bring me the verse where Jesus claims to have dual
natures i.e. fully man and fully God...?'
Now my first question
to you regarding John 1:1 is this, is this Jesus speaking? The answer is no,
this is NOT Jesus speaking.This is supposedly the disciple John writing this
here not Jesus! So what we have is an interpretation of what one man thought!
Why cant you get us Jesus saying in the beginning the
word was with God and the word was God, why didn�t Jesus ever say this?
So you now want us to believe Jesus is God because of what a man said? A
man�s interpretation! The Bible itself testifies that the
disciples often miss-understood Jesus and didn�t understand him!
So John 1:1 does not prove anything, it is not Jesus speaking.
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