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God�s written instructions for life.
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NABA View Drop Down
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Points: 867 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NABA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2013 at 10:02am
dear bronaz in my post I clearly mentioned about the dialouge regarding I am,if u say that Allah says I Am God to Moses(pbuh),means u want to say if someone says "I am",he is god?????that's truly illogical and funny,in gospel of mark ch 24 v 36-Jesus christ(pbuh) says nobody knows about the last hour nor man no angels of heaven,my father only knows.If Jesus christ(pbuh) is god then he should know when the final hour will come,this proves Jesus christ(pbuh) was not God,he is one of the most important prophets of Allah and its a duty of a Muslim to respect him,but Jesus Christ(pbuh) is not God.Allah in Qur'an says in ch 31 v 34-the knowledge of final hour is known only to Allah.

Edited by NABA - 27 June 2013 at 10:03am
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Usmani View Drop Down
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Points: 184 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usmani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2013 at 11:22am
Dear Bronaz,

You Said: Which father would not suffer so his child is better? If you are a father would you risk your life to save your son. God is no different.

Me: you righty said in my case I will suffer and even risk my life to save my son, But God Almighty is different, He has so much power that He can do anything without suffering, isn�t.

you said: God created Angels, Lucifer thought that he was superior to humans and refused to worship God if he made himself Man, which is why he was cast into hell.

Me:He refused to prostrate before Adam the first human created by God Almighty. This event refer to the skies while according to Christians God came to human form in this world not in skies. Satan problem was he doesn�t want human superiority over him and he refuse to follow God commandant to prostrate Adam. This is the Islamic version. I do not know how Bible explain this event.

You said: My concepts are very clear.
I believe Jesus to be God because he himself says so
John 8: 58 "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!". This is how God refers to himself when Moses asks him, what name shall he call him and he says "I AM".
2. Jesus is God because a virgin conceived him and the Angel Gabriel specifically says he will be called Son of the Most high Luke 1 : 32.

Me: These are not clear statements to assume that Jesus (pbuh) claim divinity. On the other hand there are statements of Jesus (pbuh) where he said

1) My father is greater than I
2) I my own can do nothing I follow the will of my father

Further more in the whole Bible Jesus never said that I am God or Worship me.

So what you have bring from the Bible and what I have bring from the Bible, any person who have eyes from them he can see the reality, who have ears from them he can hear the truth, from his heart and mind he do fair analyze keeping in view that one day I have to stand before Almighty God, can never come the conclusion that Jesus is God.

You Said: The Old Testament is filled with prophecy of the coming of the Messiah.

Me: Messiah is not God, Jew were not waiting for the God arrival, check with any jew

Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2013 at 7:50am
Originally posted by Usmani Usmani wrote:

[/quot

Greetings Usmani,

What better way to win someone's devotion than to die for them?
"Greater love has no man than this, but that he lay down his life for another"

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. - the words of Yeshua, who came to set the example of Love.

As far as I am aware I have always said it made sense in just the way I have explained it above.  It is in showing this, His great love for us, that our hearts are turned towards, and bound to, God.  Would I trample the great sacrifice made for me by being disobedient to the one who made the sacrifice?  Would I  trample the sacrifice, the blood of Christ, the One who submitted to death on a cross to redeem us?
As Paul says in his letter to the Hebrews;
29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
It is precisely that it is so counter-intuitive, what God has done to save us, that makes it so compelling that it could only come from God alone.

Salaam and blessings to you,
CH


Edited by Caringheart - 30 June 2013 at 9:04pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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bronaz View Drop Down
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Points: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bronaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2013 at 7:50am
the first attribute of divinity is holiness....We know that Jesus was holy because only holy men can do the miracles which he did. This is attested to in the Quran as well.
Using the name of Jesus, Christians perform miracles even today, confirming what is written in the Gospels.
What else would you need to prove that Jesus is God?
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Usmani View Drop Down
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Points: 184 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usmani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2013 at 2:22am

Greetings Carringheart,

You said: The understanding of Yeshua and His divinity comes from the words which He Himself spoke;
"30 I and my Father are one."

Me: This sentence carries various meanings and on the basis of this and various other statements, which are there in the Bile, one could not conclude that Jesus has said Himself God. Furthermore it is illogical for God to come in human form in the earth. Once Moses (peace and blessing of God upon Him) ask God that he wish to see him, God told Him that you cannot see me but he insist so God ask him to see towards the mountain and there was very heavy flush of light and Moses fainted and afterward realize that human can�t see God in this world and repented.

If God has to come in human form on this earth, this was the time when one of His Great Messenger has requested. I do not know whether this event is mention in Bible or not.


You said: Yes, parents suffer many things for their children.  A parent will do whatever it takes to save their children.

Me: Human suffers is understandable because he has limited power. It was said that God die on cross because He love us so much. This statement does not make sense. As you also said it does not make sense to you as well.

There is something else which needs to discuss. Tell me what is the actual problem?

 
Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2013 at 12:29am
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

dear caringheart,honestly u R short of knowledge,dajjal will come and he is the sign of judgement day,when he will come along with him he will bring lot of bad qualities and cause mischief on earth,Jesus Christ(pbuh) will come and kill dajjal.

Greetings NABA,
Thank you for your clarification.  I still do not subscribe to the belief that Yeshua will return to kill.  To defeat the anti-christ, yes, but in what way I do not know.  I tend to believe the anti-christ will be defeated when all people come to see the Truth that is in Yeshua, and will turn from the anti-christ and towards the true God, and turn from sinful ways.
Salaam.
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Points: 2991 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2013 at 12:24am
More of the words of Yeshua that reveal His divine nature, that He and the Father are one.

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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NABA View Drop Down
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Points: 867 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NABA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2013 at 7:32am
dear caringheart,honestly u R short of knowledge,dajjal will come and he is the sign of judgement day,when he will come along with him he will bring lot of bad qualities and cause mischief on earth,Jesus Christ(pbuh) will come and kill dajjal.

Edited by NABA - 25 June 2013 at 7:33am
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